the tanks got ICH

[fishykisses]

It's not really an emergency - i know how to deal with it but...grrrr - how frustrating - there's no reason for it at all...everyones fine one day and BOOM next day - sooo many have ich.
Off to get RidIch tonight...Ugh - i'm bummed.

[Melody]

Every Spring like clockwork, Ich sets in. I don't know if its the warmer weather speeding up cycles or warmer weather increasing bacterial levels which weakens fish or just my crappy luck, but every Spring, at least one tank gets Ich.:rolleyes:

[Katalyst]

The mere thought alone makes me want to salt my tanks!

[fishykisses]

i wish i could salt this tank - but there are clown loaches and kitty fish - i don't want to burn them, i have turned up the heat and blacked out the tank and getting meds tonight.

[Katalyst]

i wish i could salt this tank - but there are clown loaches and kitty fish - i don't want to burn them, i have turned up the heat and blacked out the tank and getting meds tonight.

Awww sorry I keep goldies so salt is okay for me. I love loaches and am reading about them in the hopes of having some in the future. I have no idea what a kitty fish is, I'll have to look into that. I would like to warn everyone about Quick Cure though since its a treatment for Ich. If quick cure is exposed to the cold, it turns into formaldyhyde! Do you think the people shipping quick cure heat the entire truck when its shipped? Somehow I doubt it. Well I lost power in my house for about a day, thank god for tank battery backups. Needless to say I had no heat and it was FREEZING in the house. A few days later had an ich outbreak used Quick Cure and killed my fish almost instantly. It wasn't until I put my hand in the water to pull the fish out and recieved burns all over my hands and arm did I put two and two together. The house only got down to 14 so it had not reached freezing like the website states.

Not trying to hijack your thread, just want to advise you to say away from Quick Cure. Hope your fish are on the mend soon!

[fishykisses]

OMG that's horrible! you'd think they'd put a bigger warning on the bottle!
The kitty fish is actually a synodontis something or other...it's a type of cat fish so i just call them my kitty fish. They're big - one of them is about 9 inches and the other is quickly catching up at about 7 inches.
I was told when i got my first that it would be suitable for a 10g tank, i believed then since it was the size of my thumb nail, it hid all the time and when i got my 96g i decided it might as well go in there - i never see it anyway. About 6 months later it came out of a cave and i spotted it and had no idea where it came from cause it was about 4 inches long :eek:
I Love him and i made a cave up front so i can see him all the time and since got a large female in hopes of some breeding, even though there's no known cases of breeding in captivity. They didn't get along at first but now everythings fine - as long as the female doesn't try to take over his cave.

[Melody]

RidIch+ is safe for Cat's & sensitive creatures, as I'm sure you've heard me say before but I thought I'd mention it just in case. :GEEK: If in doubt, half the dose, but personally I think that's asking for med-resistant Ich. I don't have any science to back that, but its enough to scare me....lol.

Good luck with it. Once both of our tanks settle down, we'll see if we can't fix you up with some fishies to replace those lost. I always have extra males of this or that, for one thing.

[blainep]

i wish i could salt this tank - but there are clown loaches and kitty fish - i don't want to burn them, i have turned up the heat and blacked out the tank and getting meds tonight.

A salt dose can still be used, even with loaches and catfish, keep the dose down to one tablespoon per five gallons.
Bring up the salt level slowly, over a day or two ( depending on tank size). Dissolve the salt in water and slowly pour it in.
You need to keep the treatment up for at least two weeks, the life cycle of Ich will take two or three weeks to finish and it is killed off at only one stage of it's development.

I've used this method with success with Clown loaches, Bronze cories and Plecos in the tank being treated.

Many 'experts' say to turn up the heat on the tank to 80f to speed up the development cycle of Ich, but I don't really see a need for it, my tanks hover around 77 already.

If you do any water changes during the treatment, be sure to add an appropriate amount of salt to maintain the salt level in the tank.
Example - If you change 10 gallons of water, add 2 tablespoons of salt to the new water.

Most plants will survive this treatment as well. Most of my plants are hard to kill plants, but I haven't lost any as yet.

This level of salt isn't enough to make a tank even mildly bracish. If you see any dicomfort in the scaleless fish, simply do a larger water change to reduce the amount of salt in the tank.

Hope this helps anyone with an outbreak.

[Boohoo]

I, as well, have treated my tank with plecos, clown loaches, cories and ID sharks using salt, with out any problems. I added the salt, 1/4 tsp. per gallon every hour, for 6 hours and then waited and did the same the next day for a total of 3tsp. per gallon. I continued treatment for 3 weeks.

[jordonsmum]

RidIch+ is safe for Cat's & sensitive creatures, as I'm sure you've heard me say before but I thought I'd mention it just in case. :GEEK: If in doubt, half the dose, but personally I think that's asking for med-resistant Ich. I don't have any science to back that, but its enough to scare me....lol.

Good luck with it. Once both of our tanks settle down, we'll see if we can't fix you up with some fishies to replace those lost. I always have extra males of this or that, for one thing.

I have to second that. I had tried others in the past and it seemed to take forever. I sought out rid ich + because of one of the threads here and it works like a charm. It doesn't even hurt my plants!!!

[Melody]

You can tell I'm not very into plants - I forgot about that part, but now that you mention it, I think the bottle says something about it being plant safe, good point!:yes:

The best part is that its not only efficient & diverse, but its also economical for those of us who have a zillion tanks, especially big ones. I can do full rounds in big tanks and still have lots left over for the next crisis. I'm not big on med's, but that is one I always have around - there's nothing in the realm of fungus or external parasites/protozoans that it doesn't treat. If I spot fungus at 3AM, I want to treat it by 3:01AM, so I'm always glad its there.

[Melody]

I, as well, have treated my tank with plecos, clown loaches, cories and ID sharks using salt, with out any problems. I added the salt, 1/4 tsp. per gallon every hour, for 6 hours and then waited and did the same the next day for a total of 3tsp. per gallon. I continued treatment for 3 weeks.

Its the kind of specific experiences like yours that are very useful for those trying salt on creatures that they've been warned about. Thanks for sharing the details!

[fishykisses]

Thanks all - my good friend Mr Jay rescued my fishies when i wasn't able to get out yesterday, he brought me a bottle of RidIch+, i did a significant water change - treated the tank - turned up the heat...from 74 and it's now at nearly 80.
I just realized that i may have carbon in my filter though, i'm going to have to disassemble the canester tonight to make sure. I seem to remember removing once but i don't know if i put it back in or not.
Anyway - i'll keep you all posted.

[Melody]

Its probably 'full' by now anyway - carbon only holds so much and then it stops holding. It does take minerals & such away from plants until its filled though, just so you know. I only recall that because it also takes minerals from snails.

Good luck!

[fishykisses]

Well - the death Toll is rising :no:
i did the 3 day round and took a day break...still ich. So yesterday i completely cleaned the canester filter, did i 40% wc and then treated again. I then covered the tank with towels and threw my hands up.
So today i took the towels off to feed the fish and check on progress and my 4 year old congo tetra was belly up - i freaked, ripped all the towels off and found my 2 large rosy barbs belly up and my pregnant female pineapple swordtail and a rummynose tetra dead.
The day before yesterday was 2 rummynose tetras and a platy.

OMG i'm soo Depressed!
I hate to pick faves but...all the ones that died i've either had since i started the tank 4 years ago or pregnant ...it sucks so bad!
The water is even kinda murky.
i'm going to do another wc as soon as i get back from work and i'm going to wait a few days before i treat again.
I dont' know what else to do, i can't believe it...This is a very sad day

[CACAdmin]

Poor you! :hugs: I can't believe you lost all those fish... and especially so many favorites.:( It seems strange to lose so many so quickly. I wonder if there is something else going on? Murky water? Not sure what the cause of that would be either. What are your water parameters?

As for treating, as you probably know, you need to treat for the entire cycle of the ICH... it only kills them in the 'swimmer' stage. Stopping allows for any swimmers 'hatching' to attach to the fish... and the cylce continues. :( I wish I could think of something I could do to help.

[Melody]

Aaawww that sux royally! I don't blame you for being frustrated! I agree that some testing is in order. Hope things look better soon!

[fishykisses]

the ph is a little low at 6.6 - when i cleaned the filter i added a bit handful of coral to raise the ph, and i did that in anticipation of turning on the co2 again....i have a feeling the gh is off again but i don't have any test kits to test that. I'll take in a sample to the pet store i guess. Although, what is there to to for GH other than wc's which i'm doing daily anyway?
Gh doesn't make a huge lotta sense either since i've been doing so many water changes.
I dunno - i'll take a sample in hopefully tomorrow.
For the time being - i've done a 50% water change today, 40% yesterday and i'll probably do another 30-40% change tomorrow.
The only fish with ich now are the clown loaches...figures - i may try and net them and put them in a separate tank for treating just them instead of the whole tank, but if they don't net easily then i'm not going to stress them further.

[Melody]

Did you rinse the coral well? That can cause the murky water. It shouldn't kill fish unless the pH rose sharply.

[Melody]

By the way, I have a female Congo that was left over from a school I had - she got missed when I gave them away. You're welcome to her when things settle down if you like.

[traco1]

You may have cleaned too well? Any spikes, ammonia, nitrites?

[fishykisses]

nope all the other stats are perfect but i'm still not sure of the GH/KH

[Melody]

This was all overnight though right? It should take longer to spike I think, unless it was already spiking. You may be onto something with a pH crash though.

[traco1]

But today the levels are fine? I just thought maybe with the cleaning you did last night may have been too much for the system?

[fishykisses]

i dunno - i'm going to take a sample to the LFS and get it master tested today after work.
It's crazy...i still think somethings up in there...it still looks a little murky and i did a 50% wc yesterday

[Melody]

Murky right after the water change? Stays that way for quite a while? I'm seeing that a lot - they've upped the chlorine in our water supply. They may use chloramines in yours too. Try doubling your dechlorinator and make sure it also removes chloramines, just in case. The murkiness is there because they add this stuff in gas form. If you fill with a Python, make sure the hose is above the waterline so some of the gasses have a chance to escape before they enter the tank.

This is common all over Canada in the Spring - lots of fish deaths too. I should have thought of that before but I was focused on illness since you had the new fish.

[fishykisses]

Oh!
i use aquaclear and used 10 full pumps on a 50% wc...i usually overdo dechlor but so many don't use it at all - i may not have used it on a wc or 2...hmm some looking into is in order.
I'll know better when i get the water tested this afternoon.

[Melody]

I know some people who don't use it too - luck of the draw I guess. Last year the Island had massive deaths of fish, snails, etc. Ontario apparently suffers frequently from chloramine poisoning.

And we drink this stuff....

[fishykisses]

I sure don't!
I got the water tested and everything is completely Normal!
It must be the chlorine...No other explanation, except it could possibly be the ich meds.

[CACAdmin]

How frustrating for you... if something had shown up in the tests you'd at least know the cause and maybe what to do about it.:( How are the rest of the fish doing? What about the clown loaches?

[fishykisses]

the clown loaches still have ich, the rest don't and i lost my male silver sailfin today.
I raised the temp to be around 86 degrees - the LFS said that should get rid of the ich.
You're right - it is UBER frustrating

[Melody]

Temp alone won't get rid of it, it just speeds the cycle. I think it would have to be well over 90 to kill it outright, but I could be wrong. Parasites are pretty tough little buggers. High temps deplete oxygen in the water and that's quite a temp jump - you don't want to stress the fish more or they'll be open targets for the Ich. An airstone would be a good idea at least.

I'd stick with the RidIch+ - do the full treatment so you get them all.

[CACAdmin]

I agree. You should do the full treatment with RidIch+. Just because the other fish do not have spots doesn't mean the tank is free of ich. The spots disappear as they fall off the fish and sit as cysts at at the bottom of the tank for a day. Then they hatch into the free-swimming stage (which lasts for 2 days). This is when they are killed off by the treatment. If they survive then then attach themselves to the fish once again. You need to treat ich for the full cycle to make sure you get rid of it entirely or it will reappear. Here's a link to an excellent article explaining the life cycle of Ich and treatment with RidIch+.

http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=27

[Melody]

A well done article! Very thorough. The only thing I don't agree with is the dismissal of salt as a treatment - it has worked for me before several times. If I have more than a couple of fish with it, I use RidIch+. If you use salt therapeutically, it may not work becuase the Ich could become immune to its effects... maybe that's where the skepticism comes from.

[CACAdmin]

I found the article very helpful. About a year and a half ago I had a stubborn outbreak of Ich in my tank. I had treated and thought it was gone several times and yet it returned. I was almost ready to give up. When I found this article and read about and understood the lifecycle of Ich I realized my problem... the faulty assumption that the Ich was gone just because the fish seemed fine. Of course, by then I had a major infestation and so I treated for a full cycle and then some (to ensure I got them all).

And so, Ms. Fishykisses, I do understand your frustration and I'd suggest you persist with the treatment. Best of luck!

[fishykisses]

Will do that for sure - i wasn't going to stop with the meds, just use in conjunction with the higher temp. I did stop treatement, actually i finished the med cycle according to directions and just wanted to master check parameters before i started the meds again. Now that i know everything is fine, i'll start meds again tomorrow.

[fishykisses]

We're officially....ICH FREE!!!

[traco1]

Good to hear that things have improved for you, now could you please send the "Ich Be Gone" witch doctor to my house?:yes:

[Melody]

We're officially....ICH FREE!!!

Good 4 U!

[CACAdmin]

We're officially....ICH FREE!!!
Glad to hear it! Sorry you lost so many fish but I'm sure it's a releif that it's behind you now.:yes:

[Valkyrie]

For clarification, are we speaking in US or Canadian gallons?
I want to try treating my "ichy fish" with salt but want to make sure I have the measurements right since I have corys and a loach.

[Ursus sapien]

For clarification, are we speaking in US or Canadian gallons?
I want to try treating my "ichy fish" with salt but want to make sure I have the measurements right since I have corys and a loach.
It took me forever to find out the US vs Imperial question, since no one I asked knew there was a difference. What I've found is that tanks sold in Canada are in US gallons.

now, can we all just switch to liters like good Canucks, please:-)

ps, ultra violet sterilizers work well against parasites that have a free swimming stage.

[blainep]

For clarification, are we speaking in US or Canadian gallons?
I want to try treating my "ichy fish" with salt but want to make sure I have the measurements right since I have corys and a loach.

US gallons.

In theory ( from reading I've done) you fish should tolerate concentrations twice that amount with out showing stress or discomfort, just be sure to add the salt slooooowly and watch the fish for signs of distress.

[Valkyrie]

US gallons.

In theory ( from reading I've done) you fish should tolerate concentrations twice that amount with out showing stress or discomfort, just be sure to add the salt slooooowly and watch the fish for signs of distress.

Thanks! I will be sure to do it very slowly. I used to have a brackish tank set up so I already have a hydrometer to moniter it with.

[GaryofMontreal]

In my last two Ich outbreaks (quarantined fish) I've used drugstore methelyne blue and cleared it in no time. I might have lost one fish in both infestations.
I hate salt in tanks with rainforest fish, because it is hard to remove afterwards. Methelyne blue is gone with a few water changes and some charcoal.
I have also used quick-cure (after giving it a good sniff) to excellent effect in the past. I am a water change maniac though - I like changing water. And if you want to use the heavy meds, water changing is essential - there are no shortcuts.

[Valkyrie]

I've only lost one fish in this outbreak, which was the fish that originally got it. I can't say I was too heartbroken because he was a bully and I was going to have to keep him in his own tank anyways.
I was using Jungle's Ick Guard II, but at $5.99 for two doses, its a lil too expensive for this starving student. There is only a couple spots on a couple of my tetras, so I'm hoping the infestation is mild enough for just salt. I've also used Maracide in the past, but Ick Guard II was the only product carried locally that states that its safe for scaleless fish.
So we'll give salt a try and if that doesn't work I'll have to go back to chemicals!

[GaryofMontreal]

So we'll give salt a try and if that doesn't work I'll have to go back to chemicals!

Salt's a chemical... a cheap and available one, but.

[Valkyrie]

Salt's a chemical... a cheap and available one, but.
I'm pretty sure you know what I meant, cheeky! :P