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View Full Version : Jaw-dropping Livebearers


Melody
Nov 11th 2006, 04:59 AM
I have never in my life seen Livebearers like this. Seriously - these Wild-type Mollies are built like freaking goldfish! They're several times the size of commercial strains - I'm completely blown away. Once they've settled overnight I'll post some pic's.

I can see now why this breeder cleans up at the American Livebearer Association's Convention Show. His Mollies all but swept their categories. His Limia Perugiae took the Limia Category... its amazing. Seasoned breeders go on and on about the size and health of his stock - do you have any idea how hard it is to impress an advanced Livebearer breeder with a Molly? :laugh:

And that's not all he aces either - Lyretail Swordtails, Plumetail Platy's & many other Livebearers, along with Rainbowfish and Cichlids... the man has it down to a science. He is formally educated and he put it to work for him. He devised a system in which he mass breeds by comparison to us, but he still selectively breeds, outcrosses to wild forms to improve the size, health and things like cold tolerance. He just does it on a large scale. He keeps wild strains pure, including by collection location, while still playing with the domestic lines. His domestic strains are bred to show standards, hence his performance at shows.

He breeds in vats in a greenhouse. He tells me that the reason many fish from farms are full of parasites is because they're raised out in the open. Once they're brought into our little tanks, the parasites multiply and spread at a rapid rate. Makes sense to me.

He keeps snakes to deter the disease carrying critters that contaminate outdoor operations. I can't remember how big he said the greenhouse is, but its huge. He's now in the process of building another one to match it. He has waiting lists for fish before they're born - he can't keep up.

To anyone who has ever said that there isn't any money in fish breeding, I'd like to correct you. There is no money in breeding crap, there is LOTS of money in breeding quality fish, and it isn't all that difficult. This is a family run operation. Stores that carry this kind of quality can and do make a killing. There is no way that even someone who doesn't like Mollies could walk by a tank of these babies and not have their jaw drop.

Anyways, I'm thrilled with the order to say the least. I don't think I'll ever get over the size of these fish. Even the Limia are twice their normal size. I haven't seen Platies this size in years..... These fish remind me of what I would see in the wild - big, healthy, active magestic creatures. Colors that reflect and shimmer in the light. These things were made for a planted tank, the bigger the better.

I am learning it time and time again - paying a few extra bucks for superior quality is the ONLY way to go with Livebearers. You haven't seen Livebearers until you've seen fish like this. In all my years in the hobby, loving Livebearers when Livebearers weren't cool, I have never seen fish like I've been seeing since I decided to seek out the top breeders. Kudos to Charles Slapsaddle and his champion lines :Applaud: .

Melody
Nov 11th 2006, 05:30 AM
The American Livebearer Association Convention Show is attended by master breeders from all over the World. Placing in this show once is the ultimate testimonial... so what does SIX awards for SIX different Livebearers say about a breeder?:D

ALA 2006 Show results: Charles Slapsaddle

Mollies - Domestic Varieties & Hybrids:
1st Place - Black Sailfin Male
2nd Place - Bronze Marble Sailfin Male
3rd Place - Pigeon Blood Lyretail Male

Mollies - Natural Varieties:
1st Place - P. velifera
2nd Place - P. kykesis

Limias:
1st Place - L. perugiae

It says he has all of my money, for one thing....lol.

One of these days, I'm going to tour that operation.

Melody
Nov 11th 2006, 03:17 PM
I should mention that everything I'm selling from this order was pre-ordered. In other words, this isn't a pre-sales pitch...lol.... ;) I'm just happy. In fact, I'm not even going to be breeding them all - several belong to others and I didn't keep any for myself.

Truly impressive creatures. List includes:

Wild-types:

Limia Perugiae
P. Velifera
P. Latipinna (two locations)
P. Kykesis

Domestic:

Black Gold Dust Molly
Green Sailfin Lyretail Molly
Silver Sailfin Lyretail Molly (These show the same traits that I have been breeding out in my own strain so I couldn't resist)
Various Lyretail Swordtails
Various Hifin Swordtails
Various Plumetail Platies

Off to take some pic's of the ones that aren't still jumping out of their scales everytime I walk by...lol...no problem to tell that they weren't raised underfoot.:rolleyes:

fishenthusiast
Nov 11th 2006, 07:49 PM
:Applaud:I can't wait to see pictures. Do they look anything like the pictures I have already seen????

Melody
Nov 11th 2006, 08:39 PM
Yup, just bigger....lol. One location has more of the lavendar sheen, I think two locations have the sky blue 'flecks' in their fins. Most have some degree of bronze on the head. The females are generally grey. The Kykesis have black & orange/yellow in their fins. Its hard to tell yet as they are one nervous fish, so they're pale a lot of the time and hiding way back in the tank. They all have those raised lines of dots running through the body, which catches the light to make them sparkle. Color in the wild-types is usually subtle overall, with the Velifera having the most it seems. Its strange though, because when they're outcrossed to domestics, it makes the colors flick on like a light switch. Deep reds & so on.

There's some I haven't seen since I put them in the tank - they leap out of the water everytime I walk by, that's how skittish they are. I had to weight styro down over the tanks and I hear them hitting it occasionally. I may add some dither fish.

They're eating though, so that's a good sign. Some are breeding too, or trying very hard....lol. The breeder told me that you cannot have the Wildtypes with any other type of Sailfin for even seconds or they'll cross. He said that they even try to breed in the shipping bags. When he does his selecting for male breeders he carefully chooses one, and then moves it to the females. That would stress most fish and they'd hide for a bit. He said these guys no sooner hit the water and they're breeding :laugh: .

Something else he told me was that the females are in their Winter diapause. We don't see that in domestics as a rule, but I wonder if that's where Sailfins got the rep for being more difficult to breed than other fish. Maybe some retain that cycle. He says that having the light on all day will bring them out of it though.

He's one of those people that I would very much like to kidnap and make him tell me everything he knows....lol.

Pics are proving to be difficult to get since they're hanging out so far back in the tank, but hopefully they come out soon. I'd like to get decent shots of them all before they're distributed.

CACAdmin
Nov 13th 2006, 03:38 PM
Jaw-dropping is right. Just got my fish from the order.:D Wow! They're absolutely gorgeous! Green Sailfin Lyretail & Black Golddust Mollies and some Plumetail platys. Can't believe how big these 'supposed' youngsters are!... they're huge!

Right now they are in the 5g Hex but they are destined for the 70g shortly. I'll take some pictures once they've settled. (Actually, they're already settling in... the males are eagerly chasing the females around the tank... but then again they were probably doing that in the fishbags during shipping.:laugh: )

Melody
Nov 13th 2006, 04:32 PM
Giant three month olds that's for sure....lol.

What I've found interesting with Mollies is they're 'natural purists', if you will. If there is another Molly like them, they prefer to breed with that Molly. Even if you have two pairs of Sailfins and the only difference is color, they'll stick to that color.

I can't emphasize enough that this isn't a reliable thing :wideeyed: lol, but it has happened in my tanks so consistently that if I want to cross a Molly with another color/fin type, I have to remove all males like the female from the tank.

I had some beautiful 10K Gold P. Sphenops that I still regret giving up (Still have those, Patrick? lol). Even the male in that pair only had eyes for his mate - never saw him make a move on another female, although I'm sure he must have.

P.S. - Make sure the females have some cover or the boys will drive them nuts in a small tank.

CACAdmin
Nov 13th 2006, 09:52 PM
P.S. - Make sure the females have some cover or the boys will drive them nuts in a small tank.

:yes: Yup, lots of plants in there for cover. They won't be staying in such small quarters for long. Will be doing a water change in the 70g tomorrow and after that they get to move in.

CACAdmin
Nov 15th 2006, 12:55 PM
These new beauties are settling in quite well. I managed to take a few pictures.. not great... they're a little leary of the camera and I'm not the greatest photographer :nah: but I'll go post what I managed to get. :)

Melody
Nov 15th 2006, 07:31 PM
Good - the shipping was hard on them this time so I have been holding the fish that have to be reshipped. If they can take the short drive home to your house without a prob, they must be getting back in shape.:D

I didn't get pic's of yours, so I'll look forward to seeing them.

CACAdmin
Nov 21st 2006, 12:02 AM
Shipping may have been hard on the fish but you'd never know it to see them now. They are so active and rush to greet me the minute I cross the room (well after all I represent 'dinnertime' to them. :laugh: ) They are not skittish at all and spend a lot of time front and center in the tank. I'd take more pictures but I'm a lousy photographer.

I must say one thing about the Green Lyretail Mollies. I have never seen such perfect Lyres on fish in my life! I hope I can encourage them to breed because they ought to produce fabulous offspring!

Melody
Nov 21st 2006, 03:17 AM
The lyre is something you breed for in show circles. I think they refer to them as 'spacer genes'. You want a very wide spread and it must be held firmly apart so it is always wide open.:) There is the same criteria for Lyretail Swordtails, but with less width.

In fact, that's why they breed the non-lyre Swordtail siblings or those carrying the genes but not the lyre, with the Lyre females. Lyretail Sword males can't breed, so you outcross to regular males. The Lyre gene is a visible gene, so if the male doesn't have a Lyre, he doesn't have the Lyretail gene. He can, however, still carry the genes that make for a fantastic Lyretail, such as the aforementioned 'spacer genes'.

More than you wanted to know? I don't care, I like talking about it :Neener: .

CACAdmin
Nov 22nd 2006, 01:19 AM
So, if Lyretail Sword males can't breed, does this also apply to Lyretail Molly males?

Melody
Nov 23rd 2006, 03:47 AM
Nope :) . The same gene that brings us the lyre and special hifin combination in Swordtails, also produces males with a dysfuntionally long gonopodium, which also lacks the 'hooks' needed to inseminate the female. The Lyretail gene in Mollies only effects the tail.

CACAdmin
Dec 5th 2006, 10:15 PM
Not 100% certain if the male Green Sailfin Lyretail Molly is the papa, but my female of the pair is obviously pregnant. :red_dance: This will be the first batch of baby mollies I've ever had.:cool: So folks, how long is the gestation period for mollies? (Gotta plan to move her when the time comes or the platys will have baby mollies for dinner.):mad:

Melody
Dec 6th 2006, 01:59 AM
Chances are its the Green's doing - the Molly females prefer their own kind. Gestation is 30-45 days. I watch for that squared off appearance.

I am having awesome luck using Riccia as fry cover - makes a dense matt, so you may want to try that. :yes: