Snails turning white

[happy_pitbull]

Ok... so two situations here.

I have one tank, a 40g african tank, with a pH of 8, and GH 12 and KH 9 .... I keep this water like this with crushed coral in the filter, and adding baking soda and epsom salts.

I have MT snails in this tank, and all of them eventually have white tipped rugged looking shells.... the shells get so thing I swear I can see through them !

And now I have another tank, where I am keeping my new applesnails and small ramshorn type snails, pH of around 7 ish... but soft water. The brownish ramshorns are loosing the coloring to their shells...it looks like it is peeling off in strips.


Any ideas? I mean I had thought the first tank would be ideal for snails, but it does not seem so... and now I feel doomed ! If things go bad in the first tank... my others will surely not do well... and I was hoping for some big apple snails someday :(



Min

[Katalyst]

Ok... so two situations here.

I have one tank, a 40g african tank, with a pH of 8, and GH 12 and KH 9 .... I keep this water like this with crushed coral in the filter, and adding baking soda and epsom salts.

I have MT snails in this tank, and all of them eventually have white tipped rugged looking shells.... the shells get so thing I swear I can see through them !

And now I have another tank, where I am keeping my new applesnails and small ramshorn type snails, pH of around 7 ish... but soft water. The brownish ramshorns are loosing the coloring to their shells...it looks like it is peeling off in strips.


Any ideas? I mean I had thought the first tank would be ideal for snails, but it does not seem so... and now I feel doomed ! If things go bad in the first tank... my others will surely not do well... and I was hoping for some big apple snails someday :(



Min I would add the same things to your snail tank as you have in your African tank. Feed foods high in calcium and go from there. I have limited experience with MTS and my ph is pretty high so I'm sorry I don't have much to offer other then getting your ph up a bit higher.

[CACAdmin]

Your water parameters sound fine in the African tank. I agree with Ms. Katalyst. Add some crushed coral to your snail tank and feed snails in both tanks a diet rich in calcium because they can only get some of their calcium requirements from the water column. They also need lots of calcium in their diet. Check out this thread: Nutrition Content Tables (http://www.canadianaquariumconnection.com/forum/showthread.php?t=936).

[Pamelajo]

I agree with Kat and Jay. The african tank should be great for them.

[Melody]

Substrate can wear at the shell of MTS. A ph over 8 can also disolve shells, so your tests could be off. I'm definitly not a fan of the baking soda methods - way too unstable. Your tank could be spiking way over 8 without you being aware of it. I also wouldn't use Epsom Salts to any great degree - they're recommended for killing snails in gardens.

The MTS could also be starving if they're afraid to venture into an African tank, which will show in the shell.

Quality Limestone and coral with arragonite or oyster shell should do the trick in both tanks. A varied diet high in calcium and clean conditions will go a long way towards a healthy shell, as long as the pH is above 7, preferrably around 7.4 to allow for test error.

[CACAdmin]

I didn't realize that a pH above 8 can dissolve shells. Thanks for the info. I learn something new here everyday.

[happy_pitbull]

I did not know a high pH could dissolve shells either. Good info!

I did just try my large filter bag of crushed coral in the beginning, but it was still not making much of a difference. See my tap water is very soft :

GH = 1 (17.9ppm), KH= 1 (17.9ppm), pH = 6.6-6.8.

When I had used crushed coral, it did not raise my GH at all.

So after lots of useful advice from the seller of my Tanganyikan africans and AfricanCichlidforum.com (http://africancichlidforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2840) I ended up with the recipe I use to buffer my tank. I do weekly 10% water changes on this tank, and have found my parameters very stable. In fact, if I was not buffering the tank with the baking soda/epsom salt/crushed coral, then I would be more likely to encounter pH crashes as the buffering capacity of the tank would be nill.

I can guarantee the snails are not starving, for if they were they would not be reproducing as fast as they are ! When the lights go out at night the rocks etc in the tank become covered with snails. :yes: But I agree, the pH does get up to around 8.2 and maybe that is what is causing their shell problems.

So for my tank with the important snails in it (applesnails LOL) I will try using a bit of baking soda to up the pH, and add some oyster shells to the tank :) I have no source of limestone or arragonite or any more crushed coral at the moment, as I have to order this stuff online and cannot afford it right now.

Question... has anyone every added bones into a snail tank for them to munch on as a source of calcium?


Min

[ChrissyFishy]

Baking soda is just like the store products and I don't like to add those. My KH and PH went up after I started using caribsea because it has added buffering but its natural. Just coral didn't work for me because my KH wasn't high enough to work with it. Epsom salts have sulphur and thats not good for aquariums. Everything that isn't natural has downsides.

[happy_pitbull]

Caribsea what ? What product made by caribsea are you using, as they make many different products :yes: They make buffers and additives and also have substrates etc made by them... so what is it exactly your using :;):

Thanks ! :)


Min

[ChrissyFishy]

They only make one coral with buffering arragonite :yes:

http://www.mops.ca/skus/rs/RSCS-00150.gif

:;):

[happy_pitbull]

Thats the exact same stuff I'm using :smile: I have it in my SW tank as the substrate, and a filter bag full of it in my 40g tank, but it still wont keep my pH/kH/GH up anywhere where I needed it. (I remember the stuff, it was the cheapest on the BigAls website, and thats where I bought it from :yes:)

It does not even bring my pH above 8 in my SW tank, and I have to use a buffer on top of it in my SW tank. :(:no:



Min

[Melody]

That'd be because coral's buffering capacity maxes out at 7.6. Limestones increase all three - gH, kH & pH, making it the ultimate all-around additive for tanks lacking in all three. When you start manipulating each using different methods/sources, there is a high risk of creating an imbalance. If it comes from one source, that problem is eliminated.

It is natural, allows for gradual increases and its superior buffering capacity prevents crashes. Aragonite is a close Limestone relative and offers 25 times the buffering ability of just coral, but if you want it way up there and have nothing to begin with, you have to use a lot of it and understand that it disolves slower. In fact, as a substrate coral & the like is largely useless without water movement unless you have a huge amount of it.

If you want a more profound effect, dolomite or crushed oyster shell will kick it faster, but not to the extreme that baking soda does, which is good.

The reason that baking soda is unstable is because its effects are extremely short-lived. Most modern literature discourages its use because it defeats the purpose, which is stability. It spikes when its added and then drops steadily, leading to constant pH fluctuations when it is the only source of kH. That's why Carib Sea's chemical products also contain aragonite - it buffers the buffer.