New tank...questions and debates

[Jonesy]

Ok...So within the next month, I will be getting a new tank! Christmas day maybe, if Santa decides to let me cash in all those good Karma points that i have been working on. More likely, boxing day.
So the first topic on the agenda, is size. I'm in a fourth floor apt, and i think it is steel and concrete construction. I would like to get into a 75g or 90g, preferably with a width of 24 inches. Reasoning on my width request is for my pleco's so that they will have ample room to turn around.
Next item up; stand. I personally don't like the looks of the metal stands but i'm curious to hear everyone's opinion on support and asthetics.
Third is the lifelong debate on planted to non. I would like to find a breeding friend for my L66. Most research that i have done basically says lots of wood, slate/rock caves. So not sure if this new tank will get planted. I guess i can also put the substrate topic in this. Purely for cosmetic, i was thinking of using a sand, instead of gravel. Anyone care to wade into this??

Well i think that should keep everyone debating there own personal opinions for quite some time. I just feel that it is good for dumbies like me to ask these kinda questions so that we can ALL get answers and ideas. I'm sure that everyone that reads this will admit that they too have learned alot of usefull information from other peoples post!!

Thanks for all your fourthcoming opinions!!

Jonesy

[CACAdmin]

OK, I'll wade into this with my two cents for what it's worth.



Size of tank:I'm assuming you're talking about the depth of the tank (front to back?) When I was looking for a tank last summer from what I saw most were 18" deep unless you got to over 100G or if you went for corner or cube tanks (my 70 G is 36" wide x 18" deep x 25" tall).


Stands:IMO metal stands are strong and are not vulnerable to being weakened by accidental water spillage. That said, I prefer the esthetics of a wood stand. In addition, it usually offers (out-of-sight) storage for supplies,etc.


Planted vs. non-planted:I like the look of a planted tank but often think how much easier cleaning a non-planted tank is. However, I definitely notice a greater need to do water changes in a non-planted tank (no plants to use up a lot of the nitrates). This, actually, I discovered by accident. I moved a bunch of plants from my 20G fry tank to my 70G and the remaining ones were devoured by my Marisa snails which I decided to relocate there. Even though the snails have moved to new digs (hence they are not the problem) I still have to do far more water changes than I did when the tank was planted. Coincidence? Maybe, but I think not.


Sand vs. gravel:Hmmm! Don't know much about that. I have always used gravel. I do have plecos (largest is about 5"). Observing him moving around the 70G, I wonder how much he would stir up the sand should I have that rather than gravel. Hopefully, someone else might have some thoughts on that.

I'm sure there are lots of folks here how can offerlots more input. Once you make a decision and get this new tank and have it set up, we'll be expecting pics of course!

[Jonesy]

There will be a tonne of pics....My biggest pleco is my L66 at about 4 1/2 inches. He/she spends most of the time on driftwood or in caves. The times where he has been out, doesn't seem to mix up the gravel too much....maybe i'll try the sand in my 25g first. I think i may go lightly planted though. Looks great but also the nitrates....

[thegrandpoohbah]

Plants tend to not grow very well in sand as it is too compacted for the roots to spread properly. It is easier to keep clean though as fish waste will sit on the surface of the substrate instead of falling through the larger gaps found in gravel.

[Jonesy]

what about doing sand and potted plants? Even just lowlight plants that are easy to care for and don't need an extensive root network

[blainep]

I don't that much about plecos, I do have one, no idea what kind it is. I adopted him from a friend who gave up fish keeping.

Tanks setups, I have done a few, take a look thru our DIY section. :rolleyes:

For the tank, go big, as big as you can handle. Not just the cost, but getting it four flights to your apartment as well.

As for the stand, a well built wooden stand will last for several years with a little care and attention. Avoid stands made with MDF ( AKA chipboard cr*p ). It simply doesn't have near the structural ability of real wood and if it gets wet, it gets soft and squishy.

Make sure you have an adequate electrical supply as well, you've got a heater, light and some kind of pump to power at least.

Next is filtration, get way more filtration than you need. What I mean is, if the box says the filter can handle a 90 gallon tank and you have a 90 gallon tank, get a bigger or second filter.
On a tank as large as a 75 gallon or larger tank, you may want to consider buying a drilled tank and a sump for filtration.
A sump provides good filtration, easier maintenance and can give the tank a cleaner look.

As for plants and decorations, try to get a picture in your mind of what you want the tank to look like. Wander thru a few local pet shops, the Internet etc and look at other tanks. Find a theme you like and go with it.
Don't worry if Melody makes fun of you for having plastic ornaments. ;)

As for sand, gravel and plants, consider and research the fish you want to keep and the look you want. Some fish don't work with live plants, some fish do better with sand than gravel.

Most of all, take your time with it, experiment with it, cycle your tank properly and most important - Enjoy every minute of it.

[Jonesy]

Great advice!!Thank you very much for that. I agree with pretty much everything in your post, especially due to the fact that six months ago i got back into fish keeping and i went through many issues due to lack of knowledge. My 25g has come along way in that time. At one time it was overstocked, but i gave some fishies away and considered it a lesson learned. I've upgraded my filtration, currently using a Ehiem Liberty, which is rated to 53g, so i know my filtration is ok. Lighting, same thing....
I'm not sure exactley what the look that i am chasing is, I know with the amount of changes in my 25g, that i don't think that you ever get it perfect. I am a self proclaimed perfectionist and i know that i will tinker with all sorts of setups.....Isn't that half the fun???:D

[blainep]

I know for myself, messing with things is more than half the fun.

I seem to remember a phrase, if it ain't broke then you're just not trying hard enough.

Just Kidding.

I'm forever moving, changing, tweaking my tanks. Sometimes with good results, sometimes not so good.

Thats how you learn what works and what dosen't

[Jonesy]

Another great phrase:

If it doesn't move and it is supposed to...use wd40
If it moves and it shouldn't....use duct tape

The world of the handy man can be fixed with duct tape and WD40

[blainep]

And a hammer, BIG hammer !

[Melody]

Don't worry if Melody makes fun of you for having plastic ornaments. ;)


I did not make fun of plastic ornaments! I like the car! I was sincere, I smiled, I gestured lovingly! I offered to LIVE with the car!

All lies Jonesy, I will love your Blainep bobblehead aquarium ornament and gesture towards that too. Not sayin' what gesture at this particular moment <glaring at Blaine>.

Eeeeeeverybody picks on the Melody....

:Neener:

[Jonesy]

decorations aside, has anyone ever done potted plants in sand??I wonder if Eco-complete would work?I think it may look kinda cool...Picture almost dunes of sand scattered with potted plants....maybe some reds?? Like i said earlier though, i think i will try and breedmy L66 pleco's. Would i be able to setup a suitable environment in my 25g?? Or would it be too small....Want to have at least six in there...that would be roughly 24 inches of fish...alittle tight but would it work so that i could use my bigger tank as a community tank and also put the plecos in there after i get some eggs...

[eimajr]

Although I don't know of a 75 or 90 that is 24"wide, the 4ft 120 is 4x2x2, and is great if you don't have room for a longer tank. The tanks I have gotten recently and plane on getting from now on will all have big footprints, as I've found I can have a bigger range of fish in them. Also most of my tanks have sand or at least finer substrate in them.

As far as putting 6 plecos in a 25 I think that may be a bit tight, but I'm just starting to get into plecos so I could be wrong.

[Soggybottom]

We were just talking about potted plants in eco-complete in the plant section... I'm sure it would work...

As for ideas I say just stuff the tank to the gills with pants and eventually a workable and beautiful 'scape will emerge if you are willing to play around with it a bit. Like gardening in the yard except uh, with a wet arm.

[Jonesy]

ya the aquascaping is the fun part. I just want to create an atmoshpere for my fish that is natural to them and apealing to me. I think that the scribble plecos will be ok in a 25 til the breeking takes place and then move a few of them to the larger tank......That would be the plan anyhow...we'll see how that goes

[hp10BII]

Gee...I had to find a pic that touches everything you were thinking about. 24" width, potted plants, sand, eco-complete. This pic is a 120 with a width of 24". The base is quartz silica sand - actually sandblasting sand I bought from an auto supply store. The largest grain that was available. Depth is about an inch.

All plants are in some sort of container except the crypts which I let them go wild so I do have to thin them out from time to time. I use Eco-complete for the small potted plants to propogate sword babies, red lotus and occasional water sprite to help soak up excess nutrients. The larger plants ie. swords and red lotus I used Sera Floradepot for the planting medium on I think 10" glass pie plants, so the sand hides the plates.

For future potted plants though, I would add a layer of sand on top of the Eco-complete though. When the corys root through them or when I knock the pot over, imagine dark Eco-complete on white silica sand. White is tough to keep white especially in a new tank when you're fighting algae growth. If that matters to you, I'd keep an extra bag of sand on hand and occasionally replace several handfuls from time to time.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r295/hp10BII/IMG_3171.jpg

[hp10BII]

Here's a sword in mama's pie plate. It's still tough to move around because you have to brush the sand to make room.http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r295/hp10BII/IMG_3196.jpg

[Melody]

Nice set-up, they look like they're floating on air :) .

I suppose you're going to imply that the pot thing wasn't my idea too? lol

Great tips. I hadn't even thought of the things falling over.... I'll have to go with a heavy pot with a broad base in the bare tanks.

[hp10BII]

Oh...sure I have to give credit where credit is due. The potted thing is your idea fer sure. I just happened to start using your idea before you thought about it. :D

If you think floating on air is tough, imagine what the 2 fish in the top right hand corner are doing (hide your children's eyes) on the intake tube.

[Melody]

I'm pretty sure we have guidelines about being g-rated...lol.

Oh...sure I have to give credit where credit is due. The potted thing is your idea fer sure. I just happened to start using your idea before you thought about it. :D

You've been married a very long time haven't you? If that wasn't a smart husband's answer, I don't know what is. Hey, do these jeans make my butt look fat? :laugh:

[Jonesy]

ok so the potted plants (regardless of who's idea it was) will work. I love the sand look HP, although i was thinking maybe the Tatian (sp?) black sand. Although i'm not sure if there are varying sizes......