Strengthening A Molly Line

[Melody]

My Longfin/Guppytail Mollies came from a breeder I'm not familiar with out of necessity - you just don't see them around these days so I grabbed them. They seemed to be on the frail side to me, but I figured they might not be full grown. However, after observing them I think that although they have some growing to do, they're just not a strongly built fish. They were also on the skinny side.

So I ran them through a round of PraziPro just in case, and started feeding them a royal diet. I also added a heater to the tank and its getting double-duty maintenance. They're starting to improve but they are still frail and I am guessing they always will be. One of the females is finally looking pregnant and niether has dropped since I got them (both should have by now or be very close).

I knew the line would need work, the finnage isn't as good as it should be and I doubt they were selectively bred. The colours on the females are about as blah as you can get, although the males are pretty. The idea was to introduce them to a brilliantly coloured Sailfin male and start working the fry for finnage & colour.

However, I can't stand a weak line and always breed for strength first, looks second. It was tough to go that route with these, but I think it will be time well spent. There's nothing like wild genes to strengthen a line, so that's the route I'm going. The females are with a pure P. Velivera male who is destined to be huge. His body is deep and he's been the alpha male practically since birth. Very tough overall. He's young and drives the females pretty relentlessly, so I added some other females to the tank and there's lots of cover.

He's not too hard on the eyes even without any fancy colours. He has a nice green sheen that my other Velifera didn't have and I like that. So the result shouldn't be too blah and the strength will get in there. Then I'll do some heavy culling for strength in the fry.

Their diet is focused on building their strength & immunity while putting some weight on them.

Here is one of the females and her beaux, scarfing down some homemade food. As you can see, she's still too thin, at least for my liking.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f227/canadiansinternetdotcom/MM-Velifera_Guppytail.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f227/canadiansinternetdotcom/MM-Velifera.jpg


Thought you might like to follow along, supposing the females live. They look like they'd drop dead if I looked at them wrong. :rolleyes:

[Katalyst]

That male sure is a stunner! Can't wait to see the outcome.

[CACAdmin]

If anyone can breed strength into the line, you can do it. That velifera is a beauty. I'm sure he'll charm the new ladies.

[Pamelajo]

He is a beauty, good luck!

[grumpystiltskin]

I see what you mean about the weak female, she looks like the living dead, I hope she gets stronger for you, dont sneeze near the tank, she might die of fright.
Seriously though i hope you get some decent fry:smile:

[Katalyst]

I see what you mean about the weak female, she looks like the living dead, I hope she gets stronger for you, dont sneeze near the tank, she might die of fright.
Seriously though i hope you get some decent fry:smile:
Don't make me tell Pam on you!

[ChrissyFishy]

She is so dainty!!!! Its good that she's eating and isn't afraid of the male so she must be stronger than she looks. The boy is very handsome and better than bright colours I think.:yes: Lots of luck to you and the girls!!!!

[grumpystiltskin]

Don't make me tell Pam on you!


shhhhh, i,ll send more plants :laugh:

[Pamelajo]

Did I miss something??????

[grumpystiltskin]

Its ok, ( pats Pam lightly on the back) lol:rofl:

[Katalyst]

shhhhh, i,ll send more plants :laugh:

ROFL!

[Katalyst]

Did I miss something??????

*hides plants behind back*

Errrr ummm what?

[Pamelajo]

:Waiting:

[grumpystiltskin]

LOL Pam and i decided to wait until after xmas, to avoid all the shipping nasties,
by then i,ll have cuttings for everyone ::D:

[Pamelajo]

Grumpy that is quite the nasty looking Santa in your avatar?lol I was looking for a Xmas one but could not find any nice ones. Where are you guys getting yours.

[grumpystiltskin]

Im just trying to live up to my name grumpy lol, so i got a grumpy claus:laugh:

here are a few nice ones Pam http://www.avatarist.com/avatars/Various/Holidays/Christmas/

[Pamelajo]

:laugh: I think you have a ways to go to live up to your nickname. How did you come up with a nickname like that??

[grumpystiltskin]

Well remember rumplestiltskin? i just thought it would be funny to change it to grumpystiltskin lol, personally im a long way from being grumpy,
I must apologise to Melody for destroying her post:twitcy:

[Pamelajo]

Well remember rumplestiltskin? i just thought it would be funny to change it to grumpystiltskin lol, personally im a long way from being grumpy,
I must apologise to Melody for destroying her post:twitcy:
Yep I remember, and I asked because you come across as anything but grumpy. And yes we're are masters of getting :offtopic:.
Sorry Mel.:Flowers3:
:secret:It is all grumpy's fault!! I had nothing to do with it.

[grumpystiltskin]

:secret:It is all grumpy's fault!! I had nothing to do with it.

Lmao you are bad

[Pamelajo]

:laugh::laugh::WhoMe:Nope I am an:Angel:. You must have me confused with some one else.


:NoSass:

[Melody]

:offtopic: You guys are more entertaining than ol' Mollies anyways :laugh: . I should lecture you though, since I personally do not ever sidetrack threads with idle chatter. :Fibbing:

Thanks for the Molly comments. I have hope for the females since they didn't die right away and are starting to thicken up, but yeah, not the toughest in the world. The Guppytail Mollies are such a nice strain when they have been bred properly though, and all I need from those ladies are their Guppytail genes. Then I'll improve the line from there.

They have a strange look about them... must be Sphenops or something. I think Dr. Joanne Norton had the first Guppytail morph, but I'll have to check on that and get some details.

[grumpystiltskin]

I learn something everyday in this forum i love it:smile:
I didnt even know guppy tail mollies existed. With all these interesting fish, ive got to convince my wife to let me fill my 70g as well. That will only be 510g in the basement, not too much?:laugh: Who needs to sit and watch tv, im sure we,ll be happy leaning on the fish tanks !

[Katalyst]

I learn something everyday in this forum i love it:smile:
I didnt even know guppy tail mollies existed. With all these interesting fish, ive got to convince my wife to let me fill my 70g as well. That will only be 510g in the basement, not too much?:laugh: Who needs to sit and watch tv, im sure we,ll be happy leaning on the fish tanks !

I had no idea they exsisted either. I think Melody should start writing her own Aqualogs. :) She and this forum have opened my eyes to a world of new fish which I am so thankful for. But you guys are killing my bank account. :offtopic: Gah! No more hijacks from me I promise!

[grumpystiltskin]

I think Melody should start writing her own Aqualogs. :)

Great idea, i,ll buy one Melody,

[Melody]

It would be the equivalent of a children's storybook I'm sure. The more I talk to the Livebearer gurus, the more I realize how little I know.

However, some of the ALA Board & co. are submitting Christmas fish wishes for the next ALA mag. Being Photo Editor, I got my word in there too. One of the many wishes was for the ALA gurus to collaborate on a Livebearer book. Now THAT would be something worth buying.:yes:

The Guppytails were around for awhile and then disappeared, as many strains do. Its just a name for a longfin version really. I haven't seen them available for sale before in fact and don't know anyone who breeds them. That's why I handed the credit card over first and asked questions later.

Here's a couple of males. The tails should be much more elaborate and may get better with age, but I'll be working to improve that once I have strength in the line. The first male has tail potential, the second one is pretty much normal in my opinion, but his dorsal carries the longer sail to a degree.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f227/canadiansinternetdotcom/MM-LFMolly-M.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f227/canadiansinternetdotcom/MM-LFMollies.jpg

[Katalyst]

That blue one is so special! I never get tired of looking at photo's of him.

[Melody]

I like him too but he went to auction. Unfortunately the Guppytail males are duds and I don't have room for duds. They sure try hard though!

[grumpystiltskin]

Very nice looking fish , i hope you keep us updated on their progress:smile:

I just asked my wife if im a dud and she said no lmao:laugh: oh i need sleep

[Melody]

Had she said 'yes', she would have a child to explain :laugh: .

The grey female has looked like she'll drop dead any second since I got her. I was looking at her tonight thinking she won't make it, but then she comes over to the glass and dances for me...lol. Hard to believe that the one in the pic is the healthier of the two.

I'm guessing that they're Asian bred as the breeder is a reseller and may not have bred them at all I'm told. I could be fighting the good ol' antibiotic drain. If that's the case, they probably won't make it.

I hope I get some fry out of them, it would be a shame for this strain to disappear entirely.:no:

[CACAdmin]

I could be fighting the good ol' antibiotic drain. If that's the case, they probably won't make it.

I hope I get some fry out of them, it would be a shame for this strain to disappear entirely.:no:
I certainly hope that's not the case or if it is that they survive under your care. I know the special care you give your fishies, so I have my fingers crossed. They might not live to old age (stress takes its toll) but hopefully there will be fry which are stronger and you will be able to produce a beautiful line of these fish. Look forward to seeing how it all plays out.

[grumpystiltskin]

Wha is antibiotic drain? Its a shame they are so weak, i like the look of them,
by the sounds of it, if they do drop fry that might be enough to kill them::(:

[ChrissyFishy]

Antibiotics are used a lot over there and hormones to. When they get here and we buy them they look great but theN start to get sick because the medicine and treatments are getting out of there system. I think thats what she means. GOOD LUCK!!!!

[Melody]

Exactly. They rely heavily on medicating to compensate for crowding. Fish farms everywhere are known to do that, but its more accepted overseas as a general practice and the med's (such as antibiotics) are more available. That's not every supplier of course, its just more frequent.

So we get the fish and they have zero immunity. Med's drain and the fish are attacked by every bacteria going. Even low levels that our fish would fight off themselves, will knock the new ones sideways. Parasites have a field day. Its sad.

Or worse, they're packing superbugs that have built up an immunity to the weakling antibiotics that we can get our hands on.:wideeyed:

I think I may have jinxed myself with this thread, they don't look very good tonight. I may move them to a sterile tank by themselves, daily waterchanges. If its not too late that might do the trick. I would have done that at first but they didn't seem to be packing stored babies so the male was necessary.

Oh well, if it doesn't work I'll see if he can get more and buy a zillion females to make sure I end up with one.

[grumpystiltskin]

Hmm that seems kind of sick that they do that to the fish. Not such a good place for a reccomendation !

[Melody]

Its a practice as old as time I'm afraid. I remember when someone first told me about it, suddenly it all made sense. I always wondered why the fish from one of the chain stores would always look healthy when I bought them, then slowly die and often take 90% of my other fish with them. I figured I was killing them somehow.

Once I knew, I realized that the larger chains place huge orders for all of their stores and there's only so many farms that can handle that kind of mass purchasing. Combine that with the purchasing being based on price because the decisions are usually made by some high muckymuck executive who probably knows very little about fish, and you've got trouble. Not all farms, not all chain stores, but it doesn't take long to figure out which ones are which after you've bought a few of their fish.

[grumpystiltskin]

Im pretty sure we have one of those stores here in town, my mother in law constantly buys from them and has a lot of deaths, 90% in fact.
Ive started giving her some of mine, and they seem to stay alive. I really didnt know about the antibiotics:wideeyed: . I,ll stick to buying them from you guys from now on,

[Melody]

There's a lot of good stores out there with enough business sense to realize that selling those fish isn't going to get them long-term customers. Long-term customers are where the money is. Statistically, its much less expensive to sell to a current customer than it is to get a new customer, and they buy much more than new customers.

Its just a matter of finding those stores ::D: .

We're always happy to help you when we can of course, and your M-I-L too for that matter. :smile: What kind of fish does she like?

[grumpystiltskin]

What kind of fish does she like?

She has angels in one tank, had three but two died, so she got two more, and they died, now she has two that seem to be ok, all her parameters are fine, i test everytime i go up there, In the other tank she has some of my platys, and i also gave her some endlers ,just so she can see that she can breed fish, two of the females are pregnant, i havnt told her yet lol, i just want her to get excited when she sees the new fry.
She had my big tanks when i was sick for a year, that didnt go to well, she lost quite a few of my large cichlids,damaged a few of my fluval filters, aghhhh, but she learnt a lot! so did i LOL, dont let M I L have my tanks again:laugh:

[Pamelajo]

so she can see that she can breed fish, two of the females are pregnant, i havnt told her yet lol, i just want her to get excited when she sees the new fry.That is so sweet!! I can also send some extras for her when we do a trade.

[CACAdmin]

I agree Pam, but he may regret it when he gets a phone call some morning at 6 am when she discovers the fry. :laugh:

[Pamelajo]

:laugh:

[grumpystiltskin]

LOL youre right Jay, she might phone me early, i know for sure shell be doing laps of her living room ,in excitement :yes:
Thanks Pam thats a nice gesture,
Im trying to pass my cichlids onto her so i can free up a tank for livebearers, but she only has 30g tanks. I want my 120g to have plants and livebearers, my whole way of thinking has changed, I can free up 3x10gs and use them for killies :smile:

[Melody]

Goodness, she's had a rough intro for sure! I hope things go better for her from here on in.

So the Guppytail female that I thought was the strongest, wasn't. She's gone. The other female is looking good though, compared to how she was anyway.

I think I'll get after the breeder/supplier soon and see if he has/can get more.

[CACAdmin]

Sorry to hear you lost her. ::(: Will keep my fingers crossed for the other one. Sure hope she does ok.

[ChrissyFishy]

:cry: Awwww thats to bad melody!!! I hope you get some more!!!:yes:

[Melody]

Thanks, the other one is still kicking so we'll see. I do believe I'll order up some more later on though.

[Katalyst]

I'm curious of what your feeding schedule is for fish you're trying to beef up. Meaning what, when and how often.

[Melody]

I have to consider the other fish in with her, but they're all piglets anyways. They can only utilize so much at one feeding, so frequency is the key to beef, the way I see it. I feed the tank in the morning when I get up, and then if I have time I throw a vegie or homemade food or Omega One algae wafers in there for them to munch away at. There's a feeder block in there which also feeds the snails. Then the kid feeds the tank along with any fry tanks I have when he gets home from school, usually a Dainichi flavour or mix (for adults). When I get home I feed all of the tanks, usually a mix of Seaweeds. Around 9pm they're fed something frozen, usually Emerald Entre', or freeze dried (preferrably alternated daily). Before I go to bed the dark tank gets wafers, vegies or homemade food, whatever is opposite of what they had in the morning. I do that for my nightowls anyway. That tank gets the homemade food once/day as it has the most immunity builders in it, including garlic.

So its basically a fry schedule, fed very sparingly each time. I do waterchanges on that tank twice/week, sometimes 3. Like all of my tanks, its over-filtered and I alternate filter changes every week - filter on one side one week and the other side the next. It is way understocked at the moment as well.

Everyone else in the tank is positively glowing :laugh: . My mistake may have been in adding the male - he could have been carrying something he's immune to that they're not.