Heater thoughts

[hp10BII]

o.k., with Boxing Day/week around the corner this is when I plan to do my hardware replacements & improvements.

I'm an*l with my heaters. I go through them like candy. I doubt I ever use a heater more than a couple of years for my high temp applications. I'm using 2 x 150 watt Ebo's on my 120 keeping temps @ 82*F, but I've noticed some condensation building up inside for both. I'm thinking time for replacement. It's been hit and miss with Ebo's for me, one time a coil unravelled after I plugged it back in after a water change.

I've used a Won Brothers titanium heater for a discus grow out tank. That puppy was powerful and easily handled 86* temps, but also down right scary, the thermostat seemed a little flimsy and can reach 90* + pretty fast.

A Hydor that I use for my goldies seems pretty decent so far, don't know about longevity.

I love the Visitherm Stealth but there's no pilot light to indicate whether it's heating or not so if you're running 2 in a tank, one may be carrying more of the heating load but you don't know it.

I'm thinking of an external thermostat that can control 2 or more heaters in a tank. Something like this:

http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/HARDWARE_/Temperature_Controller/temperature_controller.html

Or just go with one big Visitherm Stealth. I'm not using a wet/dry filter, I don't use a background because the tank is acting as a divider between 2 rooms, so no where to hide the wires and tubes.

What would you guys/gals do?

[Melody]

I would cure the entire headache by giving the set-up to Melody. Such a nice girl really - she deserves it.

But on the off-chance that you wouldn't want to give everything to such a deserving woman, I really only have one thing to contribute - I'd go with two heaters if the fish are temp sensitive, like Discuss. The back-up is worth the extra cord.

For heater brands, I really haven't tried enough of them to be of much use to you. :no:

[hp10BII]

I have no doubt that Melody is such a fine girl and very deserving of anything she wants. She would immediately be my missus' best friend.

But I would never pass on my problems to anyone, especially someone as nice as Melody. I'll grit my teeth, butt my head and soldier on.

I guess 2 heaters would be the way to go, I should shop around locally for a separate controller.

[Melody]

LOL Such a brave man, too bad for Melody and the lovely Mrs. HP10BII.

Have you tried searching for a heater comparison / rating / buying guide of some sort? There seems to be ratings for just about everything these days.

[hp10BII]

Yes, tried to search ratings of heaters, various heat-loving fish discussion forums etc.

The common thread to heater failure are the cheap thermostats they use, most get stuck in the "on" position and cooks fish. High temps I guess are extremely tough on heaters so a completely reliable heater that never sees north of 80*F may be rock solid and serve well for years, but if the same one is called to supply consistant temps of 86*F and occasionally over 92*F to treat illnesses etc. it may be prone to greater failure rates.

Visitherm Stealths seem to get good reviews, but the lack of a pilot light doesn't help me with dual heater applications.

[Melody]

I don't understand this dual heating issue of yours Sir. Why would one work more than the other and why would that matter? Inquiring minds want to know, and me too. ;)

[thegrandpoohbah]

I'm guessing because the thermostats aren't very accurate so one heater may constantly be working harder than the other even though both are set to the same temperature on the dial. This would cause one to fail before the other.

[hp10BII]

This is one heater review, it has some good tips too:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i3/heater_impressions/heater_impressions.htm

[hp10BII]

I don't understand this dual heating issue of yours Sir. Why would one work more than the other and why would that matter? Inquiring minds want to know, and me too. ;)

Grandpoohbah is right about the longevity of one heater working harder (or even doing all the work) than the other.

This would explain my obsession with synchronized heating much better than I can, I cut and pasted from my previous link:

NOTES on electrically heating larger aquariums or central systems:
Large aquariums or Central Filtration systems with Sumps can benefit from using heaters with a separate controller. Considering an average of 4 watts per gallon minimum requirement, one 300 watt heater would not be adequate to keep a 90 gallon aquarium at 80 degree F. In fact any aquarium 48 or longer can benefit from having 2 smaller heaters on opposite ends.
Perfectly synchronizing both heaters’ thermostats can be problematic at best, if not impossible. Conventional aquarium heaters are made primarily for low cost sales appeal. The integrated thermostats are not very accurate nor reliable, but the primary problem occurs with regards to the setpoint and the differential built into all thermostats. The differential is the difference between the turn on setting and the turn off setting. This prevents the heaters from turning on and off rapidly (cycling), in response to small changes in temperature. This setting can be between 1/2 and 2 degrees and when installing multiple heaters within the same body of water it becomes impossible for both these thermostats to operate identically.
As an example of problems related to setpoint variance: An 100 gallon aquarium with (2) 200 watt heaters on opposite ends of the tank. One heater senses the temperature drop to 77 F and turns on, beginning to heat the water. Meanwhile the other heater has not yet turned on and may not since the turn on temperature setting may not be exactly the same. Or the water could be very slightly warmer where this heater is, preventing this heater from ‘seeing’ its turn on temperature. As the first heater begins to heat the water, the second is much less likely to turn on now, since the turn on temp setting is slowly being exceeded. This leaves the first heater doing most of the work to bring up the tank’s temperature and reach its turn off setting. It most likely will have difficulty just maintaining the tank’s temp., since one 200 watt heater may not be adequate for an 100 gallon aquarium. The second heater may eventually turn on, but not before the first heater has been on for an extended period.
An example of thermostat differential problems: Consider a situation where 2 heaters manage to be on at the same time, then one heater reaches its turn off setting first either due to slightly different differentials, inaccuracies in the thermostats, or slight water temp fluctuations. The remaining heater is now doing all the work trying to reach its turn off setting. It is struggling to maintain temperature in the tank. The second heater does not turn on yet since the required differential has not been reached. (turn on setting is below what the second heater, by being on is allowing the tank’s temp. to fall to) it may stay on for hours in this mode before the desired temp. is reached or the other heater switches on!
The larger the aquarium, the more heaters required, the more problems with synchronizing occur. Many larger aquariums with multiple heaters will have at least one heater operating at long intervals, sometimes always on. This puts a lot of wear on the heater, increasing the likelihood that it will fail at some point. With all heaters properly synchronized, the service life of aquarium heaters will be much longer. This is only possible by using a separate controller. All of the heaters are adjusted to their highest setting, (permanently on) and all plugged into a power strip type adapter. This is then connected to the output of the controller, thereby effectively bypassing the heaters’ thermostats.
The problems with synchronization can be exacerbated when multiple heaters are placed in a sump, as is common on larger aquariums with Wet-Dry filtration systems. Consider the high wattage requirements of a 180 gallon aquarium with a sump size of maybe 30 gallons. Even with a flow rate of 1200 GPH through the filter the proximity of the heaters to each other is so very close that the likelihood they all operate concurrently is even more remote than if they were placed directly in the aquarium. The need for a separate controller is strongly indicated in this configuration.
With properly synchronized heaters, the actual on time for heating the aquarium is much less, thereby providing less wear on individual heaters. The cost savings in electricity usage alone may pay for the price of the controller in a short time.
The use of a Temperature Control device with a remotely mounted sensor, provides much better aquarium temperature maintenance. The sensor can be mounted unobtrusively anywhere needed in the aquarium. (Near the filter intake or even within the overflow box.) Adjustments to the tank’s water temperature is done much easier than without a controller. (Imagine trying to raise the settings equally on 4 or 5 individual heaters) By using this controller in conjunction with higher quality Aquarium heaters such as Ebo-Jager (http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/HARDWARE_/Heaters/heaters.html) or our large Titanium Heaters (http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/HARDWARE_/Heaters/titaniumheaters.html) will provide the aquarium with a reliable system for maintaining proper temperature control at a fraction of the cost of other set-ups such as Industrial type Immersion Heaters and high wattage inline heater modules. This controller can alternatively operate a chiller or be wired in series with the chiller’s control to prevent both from operating at the same time

[Melody]

I am having another one of those moments that are common in this hobby. The minute I think I know most everything, I realize that I know next to nothing.....lol. Very informative, thanks so much. :)

[hp10BII]

lol...whoa! No need to beat yourself up. :yes: It's what makes this hobby fascinating, always something to learn if you are willing to learn.

I kinda liken it to you knowing a lot about computers but you wouldn't want to know about every single application out there. You pick and choose which applications that you would like to learn, no need to clutter your brain storage cells with info you may never need to use. I'm sure there's hobbyists out there that have only used one heater in their big tanks for decades and will continue to be successful doing so.

[Melody]

Truer words were never spoken. If I ever know everything about this hobby, I will lose interest and quit. But that's why I like it - one never knows it all and right when you think you do, some research shows up and proves you wrong...lol. Same reason I like computers actually - the learning never ends. Gotta keep these ol' brain cells pumping!