I'm all excited

[OldMan]

I just found out why I have been maintaining my microworm and Walter worm cultures. One of my rainbow cichlids had a very dark color to him that I had never seen before. His whole lower half looked almost black instead of the usual yellowish color. When I looked closer, he was escorting a group of tiny fry around in my 120 gallon community tank. I have no idea how he successfully bred in that tank but the Walter worms were just the thing to start them off with. He and his mate seem to be defending the last 1 1/2 feet at the left end of the tank from any and all intruders including some other larger rainbow cichlids and my 6 inch angel. On closer examination, there is a pit dug behind a piece of driftwood and some silk plants that is probably where they laid the eggs. The pit is 2 inches deep and about 5 inches in diameter, it goes all the way to the bottom glass.

[PintoHawk]

Awesome! What a great surprise! :D

[Very Scalare]

I can imagine your excitement ::D: .
New little fishies are always a nice surprise.

[OldMan]

Thanks for the congrats. Now here is my problem, I have no clue how to raise cichlid fry because I am basically a livebearer person. Any hints from cichlid people would be greatly appreciated.

[Pamelajo]

I have only dealt with dwarfs I start with microworms, golden pearls, decapsulated brine shrimp, very fine growth food from Ken's I think and some liquid food or cooked egg yolk blended with water. When they are about live bearers size than I would give crushed flakes like shrimp and egg flake anything with protein. I am not sure Walter worms are?

[OldMan]

Walter worms are about 1/2 sized microworms. They are about the same size as banana worms.

[CACAdmin]

Congrats on the fry! It must be amazing to watch these tiny ones being escorted around by papa in that big tank. Be sure to keep us posted on how they're doing.

[GaryofMontreal]

Herotilapia fry are a blessing and a curse. You'll have a lot of them, and with lots of water changes and food, they'll grow. That's a species where you can raise the young on flake. They'll be too big for microworms from the get go, although they'll eat them. They'll eat everything!
They are extremely tough, which means a very high fry survival rate into adulthood. The parental care is a beautiful thing to see, and the fish itself is loaded with character, as you know.
It's just that as they grow, they become very hard to find homes for. With one spawning, I drove the local price of these fish from $7.99 each down to $1.99 each, and when the pet shops realized how much these young guys ate, the looks the owners gave me when I showed up to shop made me wish we had stronger gun control laws...

[Melody]

... I have no clue how to raise cichlid fry because I am basically a livebearer person.

It would appear that they do it without any help at all. A totally foreign concept to livebearer people, I agree.:laugh: I can only offer congrat's. Otherwise I'll leave you to those Cichlid people lurking around here. I have Google knowledge of this species and that's about it. :rolleyes:

[OldMan]

Thanks for that Mel. I have a little second hand knowledge about them. I got these fish, 7 in all, when my son bred his and was having trouble getting rid of them. I never really considered they might continue their parent's tradition of breeding in a community tank. They were a delight and are definitely pigs when it comes to eating greenery. My whole 120 was covered with duckweed that was so thick I had trouble putting flake in the tank (got a deal on duckweed at a club auction). 2 weeks later I could still find a little duckweed and a week after that there was none. There wasn't even the drying bits on the side of the tank above the waterline. My concern here is for the fry because I am a total newbie with egg layers after about 50 years in the hobby.
Thanks Gary for your post. The parents are taking fairly good care of the fry but the rest of that tank is going to be in a feeding frenzy anytime the parent's attention is less than perfect. I would really like to have a few survive those perils.

[Melody]

Now vegies I know about...lol....powdered freeze-dried vegies & seaweed mixed with about 1/4-1/2 powdered freeze-dried fish food is awesome for growing herbivores/omnivores. According to my Google knowledge, they are definitly a vegie lover but it's nice to have that confirmed.

On a side note, how do the Livebearers like Walter Worms? Mine appear to like any worm I put in the tank, including freeze-dried Earthworms. How big are Walter Worms? I suppose I could feed baby size if they get too big. I am definitly NOT chopping them! :Eeewww:

[OldMan]

My baby livebearers can find the walter worms and use them. Anything bigger than the smallest of fish ignore them. They are only about half the size of microworms.

[firestorm]

Congrats on your babies :cheers:

Cichlids tend to be very good parents. They will protect their young with high aggression levels until the young ones are old enough to be on their own. I have had cichlids raise their babies for almost 2 months before. If you want some to survive then I suggest to try and net some or most of them out. As the fry get larger, they get harder to catch. Mom and dad might not like it too much, but they will parent the remaining babies. They might decrease in numbers, since some will die off, and some will get eaten, but usually quite a few will survive. I feed all my egg layers fry baby brine shrimp, golden pearls, and crushed NLS grow formula. Protein and lot's of it is the key to them growing quickly, feeding them 3-4 times a day. Also do water changes every 3 days. Both of these things will help the babies grow quite quickly and properly.

[Gobies et al]

Congratulations OldMan! It is exciting to have babies come along. It affirms that we are doing right by them.

Firestorm - Where do you get Golden Pearls from? I'm in Red Deer but occasionally get to Calgary.

[Melody]

My baby livebearers can find the walter worms and use them. Anything bigger than the smallest of fish ignore them. They are only about half the size of microworms.

For some reason I thought they were bigger, thanks for clarifying!

Kensfish.com is where I get Golden Pearls - he has all of the sizes.

I'm inclined to feed herbivore & omnivore babies what they're designed to eat, just like the adults. Fish that lean towards herbivorous or are herbivorous have different digestive systems and different vitamin requirements, so I focus on that as opposed to fast growth. Seaweed is very high in vegetable protein so you get the best of both worlds there, and peas are another source that babies can handle. Commercial foods can be high in protein but the form or uptake is usually compromised by high heat processing. Don't expect food manufacturers to admit to that anytime soon though...lol. Golden Pearls are a different concept all together and as far as the commercial choices go, they're not bad.

That said, I don't know a whole lot about the requirements of this species nor it's wild eating habits - I'm speaking in general terms.

Definitly the more waterchanges the better for any growing fry :yes: .

[Pamelajo]

So how are the little ones doing???

[OldMan]

I'm afraid I will need to start watching for signs of breeding again. I did shift things around a little to make it easier than it had been for them to defend a territory. I can no longer find any fry from this breeding so I will probably follow the advice I got on another forum and use a siphon to move the fry away to their own grow out tank. I have since done some research and am hoping to see these guys breed again in the next 3 or 4 weeks. The male seems to already be trying to establish his territory again and the female is still carrying breeding colors so I remain hopeful but a bit disappointed.
Meanwhile, as Melody pointed out, vegetable diets are something I am experienced at providing and may have been the trigger to these guys breeding. It turns out that my water conditions and temperatures were less than ideal but they still tried to breed. The single factor that I can see is that I had recently started to push some spirulina into the tank because I knew they liked it and the mollies and platies really do better with more veggies in their diet than most of them usually get.

[CACAdmin]

Sorry to hear there appear to be no survivors of this batch of fry (guess there were too many hungry mouths in the tank) but at least you know they will breed. Glad to hear they both still seem interested. Best of luck with the next batch.


I had recently started to push some spirulina into the tank because I knew they liked it and the mollies and platies really do better with more veggies in their diet than most of them usually get.
Mollies and platies are real piglets and will eat just about anything but I find they definitely do much better on a diet with a higher ratio of veggies. Mine love spirulina.

[firestorm]

Congratulations OldMan! It is exciting to have babies come along. It affirms that we are doing right by them.

Firestorm - Where do you get Golden Pearls from? I'm in Red Deer but occasionally get to Calgary.

I have a guy in Calgary here that buys it somewhere in the states. I need to get more from him, but he was holding off for a while because of the huge prices it would have cost to get it shipped in the last time. I can definitely check with him and see if he can get anymore. I will probably be paying more for it this next time than last though.

Sorry to hear about your loss oldman. At least you know when they breed once, they will be sure to do it again, and usually having a higher success rate than their first time.

[Melody]

Well that's too bad, but as you say, at least you know you can do it now. Be careful with syphoning - it can cause injuries if it's too fast or if the tubing is too small. The shorter the trip the better.

I'm sure we'll be hearing about a new spawn soon!

[OldMan]

Today I came home to a half black rainbow cichlid again but this time I knew what to look for. I quickly spotted about 50 small fry, almost as big as guppy fry, swimming around and being taken care of. I don't know if the parent will do a better job this time but thought I wanted a few at least to survive. I pulled out about 10 using my gravel vac and now have them in a storage tub with a heater of their own. So far it is only a 5 gallon but I use it when I want to store some rain water and know it will safely hold about 15 gallons. I am hoping I can raise these guys big enough to rejoin the community tank in my storage tub using water changes instead of a filter.
Most of the fry got to stay in the tank with dad so that he can practice and maybe have a few survivors. Meanwhile there are no other fish, even cories, at his end of the tank.

[firestorm]

Congrats. Hopefully they do much better this time. I have raised fry in a 5 gallon pail before for about a month, and there were many more than that in there. Hope Dad does his part and raises them right this time :)

[Pamelajo]

Good luck with them.

[CACAdmin]

Congrats on the fry. Sure hope they do well this time. Keep us posted.

[Melody]

That's great!

[OldMan]

A quick update. I seem to have lost most or all of the fry that the parents were tending. The ones I pulled out to hand raise are thriving and seem to be growing on a diet of crushed flake and microworms. At first they scooted around on the bottom of their tub as if they were afraid to swim but they have already become bolder and are swimming more freely. They must be close to a full cm long now, it's a bit hard to measure just staring down on them from above. I can't really get a feel for how they look in the opaque storage tub. I picked up a new 10 gallon at the club auction yesterday so the fry are about to get a new home in the next day or two and the tub can go back into storage.

[Melody]

Whew! Good thing you snagged some! I'll look forward to the pictures that the tank will facilitate!

[CACAdmin]

I'm sure now you're glad to managed to pull out the ones you did when you did. Storage tubs are great short term solution in situations like this... as fish-keepers we learn to improvise. I have used storage tubs and buckets on more than one occasion.

[firestorm]

I'm sure now you're glad to managed to pull out the ones you did when you did. Storage tubs are great short term solution in situations like this... as fish-keepers we learn to improvise. I have used storage tubs and buckets on more than one occasion.

:twitcy: Isn't that the truth. I have had to do the same thing before. But at least it works, and thank goodness you did pull some out when you did. Glad they are doing fine :yes:

[OldMan]

Fresh update. I don't know where they had them hidden but today was a day for mom and dad to take a stroll in their end of the tank with a cloud of fry. Not much focus on the picture but I got one parent and about 20 of the fry. There were still at least 40 in that cloud of fry they were escorting so maybe this time. Meanwhile the bucket survivors are doing well if something happens to the ones in the tank.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll251/Oldman1947/Rainbows/MomAndChild2_800.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll251/Oldman1947/Rainbows/10dayfry_800.jpg

I am starting to get my hopes up on this one.

[Pamelajo]

Awesome!! Fingers crossed that they do well for you.