Shrimp keep dying

[firestorm]

I am getting really frusterated. I seem to be having my shrimp drop dead lately. I have some snowball and red crystal shrimp, I moved them from a 10 gallon tank into a cycled 20 gallon tank a couple of weeks ago. Reason I moved them is I was reading the red crystals won't have much success in breeding unless in at least 20 gallons. I also hated the 10 gallon they were in because it was large gravel and was being over run by snails. Now I have lost 3 snowballs and now a red crystal shrimp all in the last week. I don't know what's going on. I do regular 10% water changes a week, and I highly doubt about 10 shrimp would cause the water quality to go bad in that time. I have a heater in there, and the water temp is kept at about 76 degrees. There is also some java moss, and some riccia flaoting on the top. I do have one female red crystal holding eggs right now (thank goodness) and I think my snowball shrimp that was holding eggs died. If anyone has any suggestions for me that would be wonderful.

[Melody]

Do you use a dechlorinator that removes/treats heavy metals?

[Katalyst]

This is going to sound like a bit of a CSI investigation by the time I am through, so bear with me.

How long was the 20 gallon cycled for? Was it a new tank or a well established tank? I usually cycle new tanks for no less then 3 months to let a good colony of bacteria get established on tank walls. The shrimp will feed on the biofilm as well and are usually very sensitive I find to moves unless they are being moved to a well established tank.

Several other things to check for in your tank are:

Copper levels
Medications
Nitrates (a very big shrimp killer that goes undetected a lot)
NitrItes
Ammonia
phosphate
Bug spray/room deoderizer
Too much Co2
Lack of O2
pH crash
Copper levels in foods you are feeding
Chloramines present in your water

You might want to also look into your feeding schedule. Shrimp should not be fed every day. My shrimp are fed 3 times a week sparingly and no more then they can eat in a 5-10 minute period. I use marine flakes (Omega One is a favorite) to feed them mainly or home made foods. The reason behind feeding Marine flakes is there is no copper in marine flaked foods. In most flake foods there is some form of copper which is lethal to shrimp.

Because they are dying right after the move, I'd be more inclined to think that the tank isn't well established enough. Sorry to hear about your die off and I hope this helps.

I'd also drop the temp. in the tank to the 74-76 range.

[Pamelajo]

So sorry your loosing shrimp. Hope you get it figured out. Are you on town water? Some towns are using chloramines and some conditioners you have to double the amount used to remove them. Aquaplus is one.

[firestorm]

This is going to sound like a bit of a CSI investigation by the time I am through, so bear with me.

How long was the 20 gallon cycled for? Was it a new tank or a well established tank? I usually cycle new tanks for no less then 3 months to let a good colony of bacteria get established on tank walls. The shrimp will feed on the biofilm as well and are usually very sensitive I find to moves unless they are being moved to a well established tank.

Several other things to check for in your tank are:

Copper levels
Medications
Nitrates (a very big shrimp killer that goes undetected a lot)
NitrItes
Ammonia
phosphate
Bug spray/room deoderizer
Too much Co2
Lack of O2
pH crash
Copper levels in foods you are feeding
Chloramines present in your water

You might want to also look into your feeding schedule. Shrimp should not be fed every day. My shrimp are fed 3 times a week sparingly and no more then they can eat in a 5-10 minute period. I use marine flakes (Omega One is a favorite) to feed them mainly or home made foods. The reason behind feeding Marine flakes is there is no copper in marine flaked foods. In most flake foods there is some form of copper which is lethal to shrimp.

Because they are dying right after the move, I'd be more inclined to think that the tank isn't well established enough. Sorry to hear about your die off and I hope this helps.

I'd also drop the temp. in the tank to the 74-76 range.

Tank has been running for about 4-5 months now, I used to use it to keep fry and juvies growing them out. The only new thing I did to it was add new sand as a substrate, I rinsed it really well before putting it in the tank and waited 24hrs before adding the shrimp. The filter is an AC 70 with a sponge on the end of the intake so no shrimp get sucked up, could it be there is too much water flow in the tank? I usually only dose with a few drops off fluorish excel, and a few drops of NPK liquid ferts just to give the plants a little boost.

pH is 7.8, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, and nitrates 6. I use prime when I do water changes, adding it to the bucket before pouring in the tank. For food I break up small pieces of spirulina wafers some days, and the others I sprinkle in a little NLS optimum flakes. I didn't realize I should not feed them every day. I was reading they need to have a constant source of food to breed, which is why I added my riccia which was full of hair algae. They seem to eat up the algae quite well. I also thought they were mainly herbivorous, so algae was one of more important foods for them. How would I test the copper levels in the tank? don't test kits for copper cost quite a bit? Maybe I will buy a small jar of marine flake foods instead of using the NLS. I have been using NLS for them for quite some time now, and I didn't see them die off so fast. Thanks for the help so far!!

[Katalyst]

Tank has been running for about 4-5 months now, I used to use it to keep fry and juvies growing them out. The only new thing I did to it was add new sand as a substrate, I rinsed it really well before putting it in the tank and waited 24hrs before adding the shrimp. The filter is an AC 70 with a sponge on the end of the intake so no shrimp get sucked up, could it be there is too much water flow in the tank? I usually only dose with a few drops off fluorish excel, and a few drops of NPK liquid ferts just to give the plants a little boost.

pH is 7.8, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, and nitrates 6. I use prime when I do water changes, adding it to the bucket before pouring in the tank. For food I break up small pieces of spirulina wafers some days, and the others I sprinkle in a little NLS optimum flakes. I didn't realize I should not feed them every day. I was reading they need to have a constant source of food to breed, which is why I added my riccia which was full of hair algae. They seem to eat up the algae quite well. I also thought they were mainly herbivorous, so algae was one of more important foods for them. How would I test the copper levels in the tank? don't test kits for copper cost quite a bit? Maybe I will buy a small jar of marine flake foods instead of using the NLS. I have been using NLS for them for quite some time now, and I didn't see them die off so fast. Thanks for the help so far!!

It could be one thing or a combination of things, the die off of bacteria from being rinsed off, ferts which in the long run are never good for shrimp unfortunately & overfeeding. Also crystal reds need a lower pH for shrimplets to survive. They don't do well in higher pH unfortunately. I have to use r/o water to keep my pH neutral as my pH is just as high as yours. I'd lighten up on the feeding schedule, they will eat agae and pick through the riccia for snacks as well.

If you've had meds in the tank before we're any of them copper based? I have a used tank that no matter how many times I've rinsed out I cannot keep any sorts of inverts in they immediately start jumping or climbing it so I've deducted its been treated heavily in the past to the point where its still leeching something that is bothering the inverts.

[firestorm]

I guess for now I can buy some RO water from the store, the tank isn't that big that it will be a problem right now. I do have an RO system but I have never been able to set it up due to lack of time. I will buy some today and start using that for water changes. How slowly do you think I should introduce the RO water to the tank? I don't want any extreme pH swings. I kind of figured I would probably have to lower the pH to have them breed successfully. I might have to end up ordering more shrimp in the spring to increase population levels and so I can get enough to get a colony started. I know it says that snowball shrimp aren't as delicate as the crystals, but I really like the crystal shrimp the most.

I will also try feeding them every other day as well. The last medication I used in the tank was melafix, but I used carbon after treating to take it out. I did put some fresh carbon in the filter last night so hopefully it will help if there is any chemicals leeching out anywhere. I will try not to dose with any more ferts from now on. Thanks for the help, and hopefully things will turn around for the better and I can get them to start breeding successfully.

[Katalyst]

Smart thinking to add the R/O slowly, the last thing you need right now is a pH crash! I would do a very slow drip of 2 gallons tops over a period of several hours.

You need a container that will hold the r/o
airline tubing
clip to hold the tubing in place

-Add the r/o to the bucket, container etc.
-Make a loose knot in the airline tubing (slicone airline tubing works best in this case)
-Suck the water into the tubing, tighten the knot until the water is dripping at 5 seconds per drip
-If you have some airline kits hanging around you can use a valve rather then the knot but I find the knot works just as well.
-Let the water drip SLOWLY into the tank

Snowballs are a lot easier to care for and breed just as readily as cherries do. They can withstand your pH level just fine. Just make sure to drip them the same way back into a higher pH level if you decide to move them in the future.



Hope this helps! Good luck!

[firestorm]

I have actually used that method of acclimatizing when I bought my wc discus, wc rummy nose, and wc cardinals from Spencer. Since they are a more sensitive fish, I didn't want to end up losing any because of the pH difference of my water and winnipegs. Guess his pH was around 7.3.

Anyhow I will do that for sure. I did add a piece of driftwood from another tank as well, to help with softening the water a bit. My shrimp loved it, they were digging around on that piece of wood eating any little particles they could. I also went out and bought another type of flake food that contains no copper. I never realized that NLS contained copper, yet the nutrafin flakes don't. Hopefully I can get my colony back up again, and I can then start breeding them for others to enjoy :yes:

[Katalyst]

Keeps us posted on their progress! Fingers crossed for you!

[firestorm]

Thanks I will. I picked up a jug of RO water from COOP today, and I am now letting it drip slowly into the tank. I took out about 5-10% of the water, and am replacing it with the RO. It's going to get expensive buying jugs from the store, so I really need to move my butt and put together my RO system I bought almost a year ago :laugh:

Hopefully the batch of eggs one of my red crystals is carrying right now survive now that I will be softening their water. If not there will always be a next time.

[firestorm]

Well a couple of days ago I found another dead RCS. It saddens me because I don't know what could be causing this still. I feed them copper free flake food or algae wafers every other day, I have been using 25% RO with 75% tap, and I did make sure to slowly drip the initial dose of RO.

I initially thought the shrimp was shedding, as it was lying on it's side and appeared to have some shed on it's legs. I figured it was working on getting the shed off. But a couple days later I found a full shrimp still full of color dead as can be. Normally when they shed, the coat is clear is it not? And counting the ones I have in the tank, I had 5 but now I can only count 4. I am going to have to reorder some RCS this spring to replenish my stock, and hopefully I can start seeing some RCS shrimplets soon.

[Melody]

I have heard of issues with postreproduction molting that is supposed to be related to nutrition, so maybe you're seeing that. An essential molting hormone that is largely ignored in the hobby is naturally-occuring Ecdysterone. Ascobic acid is another big factor.

Although calcium is important, it doesn't have the impact that was once believed. In fact, Phosphorus and Potassium appears to have a greater impact, while over-supplementation of minerals in general actually has a negative impact.

Another thing I read recently is Shrimp will grow best when the amino-acid composition of their food is similar to their own protein. The most similar is (of course) Shrimp, but also Squid and Clams. I thought that was very interesting. It was a Japanese study and since it is a big industry there, they do a lot of research on the topic. I puree' Baby Clams & Shrimp for homemade foods so you could try that if you are into it. Squid is often found in marine foods, including frozen. Growth can be inhibited by high dietary glucose levels too, which I didn't know about before reading this particular study (I can't dig it up at the moment but will look for again if anyone is interested). It's becoming more and more apparent that although some are easier than others, many hobby Shrimp are going to need something more specialized than your average fish food.

Other than the nutritional aspect, I don't have a whole lot to share when it comes to Shrimp. :Think:

[Katalyst]

Firestorm how is the new r/o system working out for you? How are the shrimp? Are they big enough to ship to me yet? lol