My discus

[firestorm]

So I thought I had posted this last night, but I must have been that tired I forgot to save it :twitcy:

I was asked to see some pics of my discus, I figure you guys probably don't even know half of what fish I do keep, and I rarely do post threads with actual pictures. So first I will show you my most favorite fish to keep, and that is my discus. I have 8 right now in a 90 gal, but my largest wc is not looking so good these days, I might have to put him down ::(: He is definitely my favorite, as you will tell from his colors. I have 4 other wild caught, and 3 domestic, don't have any current pics of any of these guys, nor any of one of my domestics, but I will try soon to get one. So here they are:

My wc, the large one on top to your left passed away a while back, the one bottom right is the one that's my fav
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/cc_woman/DSC03134.jpg

My wc "Rio Puru's" when in QT before they went into 90
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/cc_woman/DSC03805-1.jpg

And last but not least my domestics
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/cc_woman/DSC03131.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/cc_woman/DSC03126.jpg

[CACAdmin]

Beautiful. I love discus. I can see why that wc is your favorite... beautiful coloring.

[firestorm]

Thanks Jay. Yeah he is my fav by far. He is about 6" in diameter right now. But they just never seemed to be right to begin with. They have never touched commercial foods, and would only eat blood worms. My other younger wc all took flake after a week in QT. I haven't seen this guy eat in weeks, seems that after his mate died he has just gone downhill slowly. I will miss him greatly when he's gone. I will definitely try to find some more like him in the future.

This is what my maintenance is like on the tank. Every 3-4 days I do a 50% water change, adding water back that is close to same temp. Every 2 months I do a 90% water change. I clean the filters once a month (or try to). For filtration I have a fluval 103, and an eheim 2250 canister.

I have 3 medium pieces of driftwood (to help soften the water) and lot's of live plants to help suck up those nitrates. For CO2 at the moment I just use a hagen natural plant system, combined with a Red Sea yeast CO2 system. I just got a small pressurized system from a friend over christmas, so will soon use that. For substrate I have the Seachem black fluorite sand. Tank mates are 3 clown loaches, 26 cardinal tetras, 2M/2F BN plecos, and 3 male Bolivian Rams. Oh and 1 lone guppy male that decided to harrass every female (not of his own kind) in every other tank I put him in. Seems he is the only guppy that survives for me :confused:

I really need to get some updated pics along with tank shots. My rio puru's are showing much nicer color now than in that picture.

[GaryofMontreal]

It sounds like he might have internal parasites. Have you tried deworming him? He may be following his mate down from a shared problem.

[tigerbarb420]

Nice Discus. Beautiful fish. You don't use any RO water in your water changes firestorm? What is your Calgary tapwater like?

[firestorm]

It sounds like he might have internal parasites. Have you tried deworming him? He may be following his mate down from a shared problem.

I thought so too. I used a treatment of a dewormer and anti parasite med I got from the LFS, can't remember what it's called. I then waited a couple weeks after adding carbon, removed it, then tried clout. Still didn't really show many signs of improvement. I think it can also be cause from one of 2 things. I still suspect there was fish TB in that specific tank, and I had read sometimes it takes a while before they show any symptoms. Or wild caught discus should probably not be kept with domestics, as domestics can carry diseases the wc discus aren't immune to. In the wild, fish normally don't die of diseases because of how fresh the water always stays, you probably already know that.
:yes:

[firestorm]

Nice Discus. Beautiful fish. You don't use any RO water in your water changes firestorm? What is your Calgary tapwater like?

My pH normally reads around 7.8, GH 12. I don't use R/O water yet, I just bought a huge refuse container the other day, so that I can start aging my water. I know many people in Calgary that don't use R/O water, and keep discus healthily.

Thanks :Smile:

[GaryofMontreal]

wild caught discus should probably not be kept with domestics, as domestics can carry diseases the wc discus aren't immune to

That may be the source of the problem there. Blackwater fish, like discus, come from highly acidic water, at a level that doesn't allow a lot of bacteria to grow. farm raised fish will carry bacterial loads their ancestors never encountered, or never evolved mechanisms to counter. I never combine wild and farm raised South American fish.
It's been a long time since I kept discus. Those are especially nice Rio Puru fish. Good shapes.
I have had excellent luck using flubendazole on Satanoperca from the same habitat type as discus. I had a group that were wasting and getting hollow bellied that I treated three times, and they recovered beautifully. I have no more flubendazole now, but it is a remarkable water soluble drug against internal parasites in everything from killies to larger cichlids. You can't get it in stores and have to search online for it. It is expensive and hard to find, but so are good discus.

[firestorm]

Unfortunately I read somewhere after I had already mixed them, that domestic and wc should not be kept together. If anymore die I might end up just leaving it that way, and keep what I have left. The younger wc I have seem to be doing fine sofar, I got them back in October. Although it took about 9mths for the larger wc's I obtained to start going downhill. I have learned my lesson, and unfortunately I had to learn everything the hard way. I will try to get some current pics soon.

[wut?]

well, it's too bad your fav fish is sick.
Beautiful discus tho. I have always liked them, just never tried having them YET...LOL

[firestorm]

My best advice for people who want to keep discus is, do your research in caring for them before you do, and keep other fresh water fish successfully before you do as well. My problem was that I didn't do enough research into them before I started with them, and I had only been keeping fish seriously for about 4 mths. I had my 90 gallon set up for about 6 years with an angel, a gourami and a pleco (I also had other fish previously) but I wasn't serious in the hobby and I didn't know enough about a wide variety of fish before hand. I had very little success when I started keeping them a year ago, and that discus was about the 3rd discus I bought. So they have lived for about 9 mths for me, but I think because I didn't give them a good start right off the bat, that is why they haven't lived a full life for me. So definitely do your research and also don't mix wc with domestic with these guys.

[blainep]

Definitely some good looking fish.

[tigerbarb420]

I would love to keep Discus one day when I can get a tank that big. Unforutnately I don't want one that big until I have somewhat of a permanent residence. I always assumed we couldn't keep em here in Alberta without using RO/tapwater mix and peat filtered water.

[GaryofMontreal]

Discus are held up as a sort of holy grail of freshwater fishkeeping. They are nice fish, but the only real challenge, compared to a lot of rainforest fish, is their size. They are very vulnerable to disease and parasites in our aquarium environment, but do well where they come from. For my equally delicate Geophagines from the same habitats, I have an evolving rule of tank size. It begins with smaller fish at 1 per 10 gallons, never starting at less than 55 gallons. As they grow, they come to a 1:15 g ratio, and then a 1:25, etc. And by this, I mean one fish per 15. My 120, with two large filters and 25% weekly changes supports four 7-inch Geophagus dicrozoster. No more.
Hobbyists have a hard time getting their heads around using so much tank for so few fish, and they overstock. As their discus grow and challenge their space, they sicken. It seems to take just under a year for discus to outgrow most set-ups.
I'm not a fan of discus, but if I kept them in my 120 instead of Geophagus, I would not have more than 4-5, with a few characins.

[Melody]

I was talking to a guy in a store once who only babied his Discuss until they spawned. He said they are babied all their lives. They're raised in sterile environments and therefore have no immunity. He raised the spawn like his other fish, same maintenance schedule. They grew and thrived with no issues. The parents were dead in three months flat.

I thought that sounded logical enough, but I don't keep Discus so it's not exactly an educated opinion.:laugh:

[firestorm]

I would love to keep Discus one day when I can get a tank that big. Unforutnately I don't want one that big until I have somewhat of a permanent residence. I always assumed we couldn't keep em here in Alberta without using RO/tapwater mix and peat filtered water.

They don't absolutely have to have R/O, but I do at least recommend aging the water first. And if you have peat in your tank and filters, you will also want to keep a bag of peat in the aging barrel so the pH isn't going to be extremely different. I have set up my aging barrel finally and we will see how things go :)

[firestorm]

Discus are held up as a sort of holy grail of freshwater fishkeeping. They are nice fish, but the only real challenge, compared to a lot of rainforest fish, is their size. They are very vulnerable to disease and parasites in our aquarium environment, but do well where they come from. For my equally delicate Geophagines from the same habitats, I have an evolving rule of tank size. It begins with smaller fish at 1 per 10 gallons, never starting at less than 55 gallons. As they grow, they come to a 1:15 g ratio, and then a 1:25, etc. And by this, I mean one fish per 15. My 120, with two large filters and 25% weekly changes supports four 7-inch Geophagus dicrozoster. No more.
Hobbyists have a hard time getting their heads around using so much tank for so few fish, and they overstock. As their discus grow and challenge their space, they sicken. It seems to take just under a year for discus to outgrow most set-ups.
I'm not a fan of discus, but if I kept them in my 120 instead of Geophagus, I would not have more than 4-5, with a few characins.

I totally know what you mean. I am currently debating where I can put my clown loaches (still only 2.5-3") I might have to wait until I set up a tank for my rainbows. I will keep the rams and some of the cardinals with them, but I am also trying to get rid of a small group of the cardinals to lower the numbers of them. As for the BN's, 2 of them will also be going into my rainbow tank. So I do have some near future plans of lowering stock in the tank. I was told by some other successful discus keepers that I should be able to keep around 8 in a 90, but no more than that. I wouldn't suggest keeping more than a couple in a 55, a 75 would be much better as a minimum tank size. And tank mates are definitely something people need to consider, as not just any fish will be compatible with them.

I love geo's, did have myself a wc Satanoperca jurupari, but he was uprooting all my plants all the time, so I had to make a tough decision and sell him, he was a real beauty too. A pic :spinny:

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/cc_woman/DSC01455.jpg

[firestorm]

I was talking to a guy in a store once who only babied his Discuss until they spawned. He said they are babied all their lives. They're raised in sterile environments and therefore have no immunity. He raised the spawn like his other fish, same maintenance schedule. They grew and thrived with no issues. The parents were dead in three months flat.

I thought that sounded logical enough, but I don't keep Discus so it's not exactly an educated opinion.:laugh:

Which is mainly why I like wc discus. Seems most of the ones I buy from the LFS, are always not a good shape. Wc discus already have great shapes, and I know that they will be retaining those shapes for me because I feed them 2-3 times a day. Whereas alot of people who have their discus breed, don't really know how to raise little ones, which need 5-6 feedings a day when really small to give them a good healthy start in life. And unfortunately many of them end up football shaped.

A healthy discus should live at least 5-10yrs, not only a few months. I have learned a few things along the way, and one HUGE one is that you DON'T treat them like all the rest of your fish. They do and will require more maintenance, so I only say this to those who have never kept them and want to, do your research first. If you feel you're not ready for the time you will have to put into them, then they are not the fish for you at this time. Don't learn by the same mistakes I did, it will cost you ALOT of headache, frusteration, and money. The only reason I didn't give up on them, is because of their wonderful personalities. They eat from my hands, they come up to the glass and greet me, and they are one of the most beautiful and graceful fw fish in my own opinion. :yes:

[Melody]

I'm guessing what saved that particular hobbyist was his well established planted tank. When they're fed a proper diet, they release a lot of ammonia into the water column. A well established bio system allows for efficient processing of ammonia. Over and above that, the fry were allowed to develop natural immunity, resulting in a high survival rate and healthy fish.

He made virtually all of his own food an otherwise fed frozen, which is how we got to talking. The store doesn't carry frozen and I told him who does when I heard him ask. The next thing I knew, it was an hour later :laugh: . Hobbyists can yack up a storm when they meet.

There is certainly an art to them it seems, so it's always interesting to hear their keepers share their experiences.:yes:

[firestorm]

Yeah i'm the same way, when I get to talking about fish I just don't shut up :twitcy:

I was pondering making my own beef heart when the company that used to make it for frozen fish food stopped doing so. Beef heart is good for growing out those young'uns, but it can pollute the water column very fast. My discus get NLS discus pellets in the morning, then when I get home I usually feed them NLS optimum flakes (not all will eat the pellets), and then about 1/2 before lights out they get some algae wafers, and either bloodworms, brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, or Ocean nutrition frozen discus formula. So basically a couple feedings of dry foods, and one feeding of frozen. The algae wafers are mostly for my BN's, but some of my discus love to pick at it.

My discus are in a well planted aquarium also, along with really good filtration stuffed full of bio media, but I still do the wc's every 3-4 days.

[firestorm]

Well I had to put down my big discus last night. He was just so skinny and looked like there was no saving him anymore. It was very difficult to do, but I stuck him in a bag and put him in the freezer anyway. I opened the freezer up about an hour later to get some frozen juice out, and he was still alive, I think I am scarred for life seeing him in there with his sad eyes :cry:

[wut?]

::(: Awww, that's too bad. Sorry.

[CACAdmin]

So sorry to hear you had to put him down. Very traumatic for you, I'm sure. I have never dealt with a large fish so don't know how well it would work with them but you could use clove oil to sedate the fish first (this does not kill them... just puts them to sleep).

[firestorm]

I know Jay, I don't have any clove oil, and he was looking so sickly and thin that I couldn't stand to see him suffer anymore. I couldn't wait a day or 2 until I bought some, im sure he would have been dead by morning anyhow. I had this guy for about a year, so it did upset me, you get quite attached to fish you have for that long :frown:

[CACAdmin]

I understand how difficult it must have been for you. You did what you had to do. Although it's difficult, rather than let a fish suffer we find we must chose the kinder option of euthanizing them. I only mentioned the clove oil in case you weren't aware of it and ever found yourself in a similar situation.

[Namor]

Sorry too hear of your loss firestorm.

[Gobies et al]

My condolences to you, Firestorm.

This topic came up on another forum recently. She too, didn't have Oil of Cloves on hand, so she took Cloves boiled a decoction and used that. That also was effective.

:hugs:

[firestorm]

Thanks guys. I think only fish keepers can understand the difficulty in losing a fish. Most people look at me as though I am retarded for mourning over a fish. I never thought of boiling cloves. I will be picking up some clove oil when I get paid. I still don't know what he died from. I am wondering if the university or another place will do autopsies. I would really like to find out, and it would be good for them to research fish diseases :wideeyed:

[hp10BII]

Sorry to hear about your loss...

[Lisachromis]

Sorry to hear that firestorm. If you have a "vet" college anywhere near you they may do a necropsy. The problem is you'll have to pay for it and it can run up to $150. Depends on what they're asked to do. It may be also be possible to suggest that they do the test as a teaching item in their class. That may get a free one done.

Either way, losing fish you value really sucks!

[Gobies et al]

Have any of you had a necropsy done? receive definitive results?

In ~1998 the Koi population was hit hard with an outbreak of a virus. People were asked to send their affected koi for necropsy. They preferred that they still be live so that the corpse be as fresh as possible. They identified Koi Herpes Virus.

I was curious if there was a time limit on age of corpse/ frozen/preserved?

:GEEK:

[firestorm]

Not sure, but I threw the bag in the garbage anyhow.

I am going to be getting 2 more discus next weekend through a mail order. But I will be keeping them in a separate tank just in case, I also will need to QT them. I can't wait :)

[CACAdmin]

New discus next week? That's exciting. ::D: Is it a pair? and what color have you ordered?

[firestorm]

No it's not a pair. I am getting a checkerboard pigeon which is the 5th pic down, and a red spot green discus which is in the pic in the green box to the right. http://aprilsaquarium.blogspot.com/ I will also be getting some grade A red crystal shrimp, some dwarf hairgrass, and some galaxy rasboras.

[CACAdmin]

Very pretty. I hope they do well for you.

[firestorm]

I hope so too. They are going into QT in a completely separate tank for now until I know for sure all fish in the main tank are doing fine. And they are supposed to be very good quality discus, they better be for the price I am paying for one of them.

[hp10BII]

I bought a pair of each of these from April last fall. I think you'll like them! :yes:

[firestorm]

I have never heard of anyone being disappointed with Aprils discus. I have just never ordered from there in the past because no one had really held a group order for them before. I am really excited though, all I know is they are NOT going in with my current discus yet. :yes:

I actually removed most of the other fish in their tank last night, and most of the sand substrate. I am trying to get my darn heater to raise the temp up to about 96, I hear raising them this high can help to kill many diseases and infections, just not too sure if I should try to catch the remaining cardinals I couldn't catch last night. I think when I add fish back, only the cardinals and a couple of BN plecos will be going back, I will rehouse the ram, the other 2 BN's and my clown loaches with my angels and rainbows.

[hp10BII]

I actually removed most of the other fish in their tank last night, and most of the sand substrate. I am trying to get my darn heater to raise the temp up to about 96, I hear raising them this high can help to kill many diseases and infections, just not too sure if I should try to catch the remaining cardinals I couldn't catch last night.

Maybe just a typo, but 96 would be very uncomfortable even for discus. The most I've ever raised temps was to 92-93 and that was just for the week in treating them with metronidazole. 86 would be a good number for growing out juveniles.

[firestorm]

Yeah I thought 96-100 was a fairly high temp. I managed to get the temp to 92, but only left it there for 3 days since the discus stopped eating and seemed very skittish.

But I do have some good news. Fish arrived yesterday 3 planes later than they were supposed to (stupid westjet). But all the fish made it, and my 2 discus are doing just fine. Very good quality and healthy from what I can tell. I am very pleased with Aprils stock :yes:

Red spot green
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/cc_woman/newdiscus015.jpg

Checkerboard pigeon
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/cc_woman/newdiscus012.jpg

[hp10BII]

Glad your discus took their sidetrip well. Good looking specimans!

[Melody]

They seem none the worse for wear! It's amazing what they've done with the Discus patterns/colours - those nice broad sides beg to have brilliant displays.:yes:

[GaryofMontreal]

I always kept my Discus at around 27c. Granted, I don't have them any more, but I did have them for a fair time. The heat cranking thing is like salt for mollies - unnecessary. It does discourage some bacterial and parasite problems, but not as well as clean, large, lightly populated well decorated tanks. I've never kept the inbred selected forms, but wild discus aren't that fragile. You have to deal with their size and weight and you can't skip water changes - but the same is true for Satanoperca, Geophagus, Uaru and a host of SA cichlids that aren't treated like hothouse orchids.
In the wild, they hang around tree roots and driftwood tangles. We keep them in bare tanks. They get stressed.

[BlueAbyss]

... The heat cranking thing is like salt for mollies - unnecessary. It does discourage some bacterial and parasite problems, but not as well as clean, large, lightly populated well decorated tanks ... In the wild, they hang around tree roots and driftwood tangles. We keep them in bare tanks. They get stressed.

+1, and regular, decent sized water changes go a long way to keeping healthy fish (and plants!).