Can I add salt?

[BarbG]

I have 6 new Mollies in a 29 gal with 6 Peppered Corys. I keep reading that Mollies need some salt in their tank in order to stay healthy. Can the Corys handle a bit of salt? If not, I will move them to another tank. Thanks

[OldMan]

I have salted a tank with cories in it in the past and had them survive but that was before I figured out that my mollies would thrive without it. I have rather hard tap water that has a high pH of about 7.8. My mollies just live in straight tap water with no salt added. It is a situation that my cories really appreciate. Here is a picture that I took today of some mollies that have never seen anything but freshwater in my tanks. The fry are 35 days old today.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll251/Oldman1947/Mollies/MomNEm35_1024.jpg

[CACAdmin]

Mollies will thrive with or without salt. They are very adapatable fish. I add a very small amount of salt to my tanks of livebearers but it really isn't necessary. What mollies do require though is rather pristine water conditions. The quality of the water is what really matters. Do frequent water changes and they will be happy and healthy.

Great pic OldMan... lots of very cute little fry.

[GaryofMontreal]

The flip side is that Corydoras evolved in soft water conditions. The Amazonian region is very mineral poor. Corys begin to appear where mollies begin to disappear. Mollies thrive in the limestone, mineral-rich Yucatan, Mexico and Central America. There are a few molly species which continue south into the edge of Cory territory, but not as the mollies we know.

We add salt because we think we should, and because there are some mollies from saltwater or brackish conditions, and we over-apply the knowledge of that. Most mollies come from hard water, and the ones that don't are extremely rare (and grey).

Corys come from soft water. They seem to suffer in salt.

And just to make it worse, most domestic form aquarium mollies like warm water.
Peppered corys are from the southern limits of the Corydoras range, where the water gets colder. They like room temperatures or even cooler.

[OldMan]

I don't really disagree Gary, but my mollies usually live at 75F or less which is fine or many cories too. The cories that I try to breed are kept in their own tank with a high addition of RO water to bring their water hardness lower but unless you are trying to breed them, the seem to do OK in harder water.

[GaryofMontreal]

I'm not disagreeing with you either - I have corydoras sterbai at 27.7c and they are chugging along looking great. But Argentine paleatus (peppered) corys come from much cooler water than most Amazon corys. Lots of species, lots of needs - and BarbG seems to have found herself with one species from the small group of corys that really like it cool.
Corys will adapt and live in harder water, but salt really seems to irritate them.
I have two caucana molly females here, from interior Colombia. When I got them, I read up and followed the suggestion to add a little salt. Their skin erupted in plaques. I did an emergency water change with my soft, acid tap, and by the next day, they were happy as could be. They come from the same water as Apistogramma and they have the same water needs. They are mollies, they are Poecilia, but they would die in salt. Poecilia schenops would die in their water.
I believe you have to go species by species - there's no rule for Corys or mollies, since the names are just umbrella groupings. There are rules for Poecilia schenops, P latipinna, P caucana, Corydoras paleatus, panda, etc. There are dozens of species with different needs here.

[CACAdmin]

I am learning much from these discussions, gentlemen. I hadn't even realized that there were mollies like your caucana mollies, Gary, that like soft, acidic water. I raise domestic strains of mollies which thrive in warmer temps (my tanks are 78-80F) and harder water (which I really have to work at with our soft water here on the coast). My domestic strains have mostly latipinna and schenops in their genetic makeup (with some velifera thrown in for good measure. :wink: )

And I am learning so much about the needs of corys and may try them again sometime now that I am gaining a better understanding. (I think they are so cute).

[Melody]

We enjoy a lot of advanced knowledge and experience in this forum and it shows. The problem with advanced knowledge & experience in a hobby with very little certainty, is there are often conflicting personal absolutes. I should know - I have a zillion personal absolutes that nobody in particular considers to be facts :laugh: . Right or wrong really has no place in a hobby where so much is undiscovered. That's why I listen to knowledge and experience even when I disagree - tomorrow I may very well draw on that knowledge to round out a new fact. In my opinion, true intelligence can't exist without an open mind.

To answer the question at hand - no, Mollies don't need salt (a proven and generally accepted absolute...lol). The theory comes from some wild populations but the Mollies in stores are far removed from those, and hybrids to boot. Many of them are raised on farms in cement vats though, and that has kept them acclimated to hard water conditions.

Cory's have always done fine with some aquarium salt in my tanks but there are many species of Cory's out there, with some being wild caught and requiring more consideration.

My suggestion would be to skip the salt. The adaptability of Mollies is amazing but they have never adapted to less than optimum conditions, nor should they for that matter. Do frequent waterchanges, don't overstock, add some live plants if you can and everyone will live in peace and harmony. :smile:

[Melody]

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll251/Oldman1947/Mollies/MomNEm35_1024.jpg

That is such an awesome picture, with the babies perfect miniatures of the adult and all in focus. The ALA is doing a gallery for the newly revised website's Members section and I hope you'll submit it. I might grab it if a coinciding article appears in Livebearers, if I may. You'd be credited of course.:smile:

[GaryofMontreal]

Interesting. I used salt a few times with corys and they really reacted badly. So I made a generalization. Now, there are probably hundreds of species of Corys and I should have noted exactly which ones were distressed by salt. Melody and Old Man's experience has me thinking again - you don't know what you don't know until you confidently announce that you do know.:confused:

As for the caucana mollies, I couldn't figure them out for sure until the importer tried to get me more and found out where they were from. I had bred Apistos from the same watershed and they had not been easy. These mollies had come in the same bag as wild Rams - I assumed they were coastal mollies who'd jumped holding tanks and somehow survived in the soft water. But nope, they were different mollies.
Unfortunately, they aren't showstoppers, though their dorsals are nice.

[OldMan]

Mel, every time I go to the ALA website, including less than 5 minutes ago, all I find anymore is pure spam. I think they have given up even trying to remove it. Where have you been going that I have not yet discovered?

[CACAdmin]

As for the caucana mollies, I couldn't figure them out for sure until the importer tried to get me more and found out where they were from. I had bred Apistos from the same watershed and they had not been easy. These mollies had come in the same bag as wild Rams - I assumed they were coastal mollies who'd jumped holding tanks and somehow survived in the soft water. But nope, they were different mollies.
Unfortunately, they aren't showstoppers, though their dorsals are nice.
Nice dorsals are all it takes. Do you happen to have any pics? If so, I'd love to see them.

[Melody]

Mel, every time I go to the ALA website, including less than 5 minutes ago, all I find anymore is pure spam. I think they have given up even trying to remove it. Where have you been going that I have not yet discovered?

It's all new coming soon - it has been a learning experience and someone else is working on it now, top priority being a more user friendly site. I have every confidence that things will be under control as soon as they can manage it. Sorry, I should have mentioned that it's in the works.

[Melody]

Interesting. I used salt a few times with corys and they really reacted badly. So I made a generalization. Now, there are probably hundreds of species of Corys and I should have noted exactly which ones were distressed by salt. Melody and Old Man's experience has me thinking again - you don't know what you don't know until you confidently announce that you do know.:confused:

As for the caucana mollies, I couldn't figure them out for sure until the importer tried to get me more and found out where they were from. I had bred Apistos from the same watershed and they had not been easy. These mollies had come in the same bag as wild Rams - I assumed they were coastal mollies who'd jumped holding tanks and somehow survived in the soft water. But nope, they were different mollies.
Unfortunately, they aren't showstoppers, though their dorsals are nice.

I've never owned wild Cory's to my knowledge so they could be (ahem) a whole new bag of fish. I have heard many times that they can be sensitive to salt so I certainly wouldn't argue the point, but the hobby regulars that I've owned are fine so far. That said, I have them in hard water environments and with salt, but I don't use nearly as much salt as the box suggests. They are active (preferring the evening) and the females fill with eggs on a regular basis. I haven't salted nor hardened breeding tanks so I can't comment there. There's so many species, Gary, I'd personally not only hesitate but outright refuse to make any blanket statements.

I did have issues with rock salt until an oldtimer hobbyist said that the Cory's might be eating it. He suggested I disolve it first or at the very least pour it into my HOB filter. I've had no issues since.

I can fathom with a reasonably educated eye if most fish are thriving and acting normally, but I wouldn't suggest that anyone with less experience play around with what reliable sources advise. Salt is basically optional, so if it doesn't matter a person is just as well off skipping it if there are concerns.

[Melody]

Tacking on to that thought, you have hard water, yes? Mine is baby soft. Maybe it's the extra minerals that puts Cory's over the edge in a hard water environment?

It's amazing how many times that myself and others make statements about something like this without considering the environment a hobbyist is starting out with. I'm going to have to watch myself for that! One thing these conversations accomplish though, are deeper thought into the matter. It makes me go from "I'm right" to "I'm right but what if...". This is good. ::D: