Leaf Fish spawning behavior

[CACAdmin]

All day today until I went to work this afternoon, I got to watch the spawning behavior of my leaf fish. The male remained by the female's side (anywhere form almost touching to 3/4 in. away from here, all the time mirroring her position and movements. Every so often he would flutter his tail and then shimming his whole body (obviously in a display to encourage her to spawn.

They cruised the entire tank like that for hours in what appeared to be her search for a location to deposit the eggs (they normally don't swim around much unless hunting for food and never together.

I just got home from work to find they had spawned :waycool: (eggs are on the back wall of the tank with Papa guarding them). Mama is keeping her distance (at the front of the tank).

This is a whole new arena for me. I normally deal with livebearers and there is only limited info available on leaf fish so I will be learning as I go. But from what I've read, the spawning is the easy part. Raising the young'uns in a whole different story (they tend to eat each other :wideeyed: )

Shall try to get some pics of the eggs and post later.

[CACAdmin]

Update. This morning, the male was getting aggressive towards the female. So I moved her temporarily to my 5g Hex (which was empty with the exception of a few snails to keep it cycled). I had to move the snails out and do a big water change before moving her in because the pH would have been way too high for her. Even though her quarters are small she seems content (maybe relieved the male is not around to bully her.)

Update on the eggs. Lots last night. This morning maybe 1/10th if that. I have a feeling the plecos (who love to scrub the back wall of the tank) either simply scrubbed many off or ate them (no idea if they would or not) or maybe the snails in the tank munched them:Dunno: . There are still about 30 eggs.

I took a picture last night (only to discover this morning that it didn't turn out as my batteries were dying.) It's all grainy. Too another this morning of the few remaining eggs.

Eggs last night (yellow in photo)... terrible shot but at least you can see how many there were.
http://www.canadianaquariumconnection.com/jb_images/leaf-fish-eggs1.jpg

Eggs this morning
http://www.canadianaquariumconnection.com/jb_images/leaffisheggs-2.jpg

[Namor]

That is so awesome you wound up with a pair and they have spawned, congrats!::D:

[Gramma]

That's great Jay. I am very excited for you. Good luck with those eggs hatching and the fry surviving. I am sure you will keep us posted.

[Pamelajo]

Congrats Jay, the snails maybe eating them too!

[CACAdmin]

Thanks, Pam. Just trying to figure out who the culprits are so that if this time eggs don't survive, I have a strategy to save them the next time the fish spawn (assuming they will).

[CACAdmin]

It appears as though all the eggs are gone and the male is no longer guarding. I don't see any sign of wigglers either so I shall return the female to the tank. Next time they spawn (if they do), maybe I'll try removing some of the eggs (hopefully some will be on a leaf) and see what happens.

[Melody]

What amazing luck! Good luck with the next spawn!

[PintoHawk]

Good luck, Jay! Good job with the first spawn ... even though no eggs remain, at least you had your fish spawning. That's an accomplishment right there. :)

Question - you figure your pleco would NOT eat the eggs? You figure it would be an accident if he were responsible? My hubby was asking me if a PLeco would eat eggs, and I didnt know what to tell him.

[CACAdmin]

Thanks, Melody... yes it was definitely luck getting a pair.Thanks, Anna. However, all I knew about them spawning was what little info I could find mostly on mongabay.com. So it's all a learning experience for me. I think I may know (guessing) what might have triggered the spawn but I won't post until I've tested the theory.

As for the plecos, I have no idea if they ate the eggs or not... could very well be the snails or could even be the plecos accidentally knocked them off when scrubbing the tank walls of algae. Tell hubby he'll have to wait for an answer on that one. If they spawn again, I'll try removing the BNs and see what happens. And even then, that won't provide a definitive answer. Even if it turns out they ate the eggs, it doesn't mean they would eat just any eggs.

You see, nothing is cut and dried. Even my leaf fish didn't spawn according to the 'rules'...lol (Somebody should have explained that part to them. :wink: ) Supposedly they lay their eggs on the underside of broadleafed plants. Well, instead the chose the flat surface of the back of the tank... go figure. :rolleyes:

[PintoHawk]

Maybe because they laid them in plain sight, they were exposed to too much light or something. Maybe laying them on the underside of leaves provides some sort of protection?

[CACAdmin]

Success! I have dozens of leaf fish fry (< 1/8 in.) :red_dance:I have no idea if these were from the eggs I saw or a second spawn somewhere where I couldn't see the eggs. I didn't even notice them until I was doing a waterchange in the tank. The leaf fish don't care for me doing this but usually just retreat to the surface and lay on their sides among the water lettuce and duckweed.

However, today when I put the hose in the tank the female went over and snapped at it. I figured she'd found one of the feeder fry I had added yesterday but when I looked closely, I could see what I first thought we little water bugs hovering near the surface. I took a closer look and realized they were miniature leaf fish.:waycool: And the female isn't trying to eat them (way too small to even be tasted) she was trying to protect them from this nasty hose.

I guess they have been feeding on the brine shrimp I feed the feeder fry and any baby gammarus shrimp they find. Good thing I picked up some more baby brine shrimp this week. Full bellies will help prevent them from eating each other.:rolleyes:

I have been trying desperately to get pictures especially of those that venture away from the surface but with little success. I have attached the best one I could get of two of them next to a hygro leaf... very blurry. They look like blobs as their tails are transparent.

[Melody]

Well that's was just too easy! lol Stop glaring at me!

Congrat's!

[Pamelajo]

Congrats Jay that is awesome!!!

[CACAdmin]

Thanks! Now the challenge will be to raise these minute little predators.:rolleyes:

[Gobies et al]

Good luck , Jay! That would be quite a coup!:notworthy:

[Namor]

Jay, that's fantastic!

There really is something to be said about the power of positive thinking.:yes:

Hope you can raise a few, and let me now provide a friendly reminder as to who first called dibs. :wink:

[CACAdmin]

Thanks everyone. You should have seen me when I realized what I was looking at. I was like a kid at Christmas.:twitcy:

Namor, you do realize if you call dibs on these and I manage to raise some, that you're going to need to get another tank. :wink:

[PintoHawk]

AWESOME! Good for you, Jay! I know exactly wat you mean by "a kid at Christmas", that was me, this morning when I found my Danio/Barb (unknown) wigglers. :p

[blainep]

:waycool::thumbup::Applaud::thumbup::waycool:

[CACAdmin]

Well now that I've armed myself with live food cultures for when the leaf fish fry grow big enough to eat them, I can't seem to find the fry. However, there are many possibilities:

they died
they were eaten by the parents
they could have gotten really good at hiding (heck sometimes I find it hard to find the adults)
they could be all have been sucked into the overflow :err: and are possibly in there dining on baby gammarus.I guess only time will tell. I will keep feeding BBS just in case they've made it as the BNs and snails in there will clean it up.

[Killiejoe]

Wow Jay I really hope they turn up for you. There have been quite a few times where I thought I lost all my fry only to find them the next day or even a couple days later. And this is one for the books for sure!

[CACAdmin]

If I don't find any in the next few days, I guess I'll have to clean out the overflow and see if they got sucked in there. Sure hope I don't have to resort to that... pulling out all the bioballs and then siphoning out the water to see if it contains any fry. :rolleyes: Oh well, if worst comes to worst, I know they've spawned and probably will do again. Next time I'll make sure I siphon out a few fry and put them in their own tank.

[CACAdmin]

Update: not a sign of even one fry. I'm not sure what happened (I assumed they would be too small to interest the parents but one never knows). If the leaf fish spawn again, I will scoop some fry out and try to raise those in a seperate tank.

[Pamelajo]

Sorry you can't find any!!

[CACAdmin]

Thanks Pam. Even though there are no surviving offspring, just having had the opportunity to watch the spawning ritual and to see these minute little fry swimming around tank was rewarding enough.

I do hope however, they will spawn again... if only I can figure out what the trigger was. I had thought it was a sudden abundance of food> Just before they spawned, not having a spare tank handy as it was being used as a q-tank at the time, I dumped my entire purchase of feeders into the leaf fish tank all at once (I usually just put a few in at a time). However, I tried that again this past week but :nah: didn't seem to have any effect this time so I guess that wasn't it.

[CACAdmin]

The leaf fish currently have full bellies and there are about a half dozen feeders swimming aournd the tank and being ignored. I was sitting her watching them and at first I thought the female was hunting as she was drifing into various positions in the tank. Then I realized that she is not. She's initiating the spawning ritual. The male is cautious, getting close and obsrving her but not yet mimicking her movements (which is what I saw last time)... it's almost as if she is flirting with these graceful movemnts... enticing him to join her.

I have no idea how long it goes on for... the last time I had to leave for work. I may have to stay up all night if I want to actually see them spawn.

[fishykisses]

that's great! My fingers are crossed for you.

[CACAdmin]

Thanks! Nothing yet. She's still plump with eggs but he's staying on her side of the tank. Yes, I said 'her' side of the tank. :laugh: Each keeps to his/her own side of the tank... they may be a pair but they prefer their own space (except when spawning).

[Pamelajo]

Sounds promising, fingers crossed here for you!!