Micropoecilia picta 'red'

[thegrandpoohbah]

Does anyone know if these will hybridize with guppies? The reading I have done suggests that they are genetically different enough that this will not happen. I just got a few from Blainep and the adult male is already displaying for all the female guppies in my 20G.

[Melody]

I haven't heard of them hybridizing yet. Displaying doesn't mean they'll cross - you know how Poecilia Livebearers are:rolleyes: . An enthusuastic male is only half the battle - the female decides if it's going to happen and they can be picky about their mate. If there's a male and a female in each species, it reduces the chances of a cross in any related species (but it's nothing to bet on).

Guppies could cross with Mollies, but how often have you seen that? Picta is more closely related to Guppies than Mollies are though. However, even if they bred they would also have to produce live or fertile young and that's not always the case in hybridization.

Point being, they're all in the same genus so it's possible, but I'd say not probable. It's always best to err on the side of caution with closely related species of the same genus though, if you don't want hybrids.

[blainep]

From the reading I've done, they shouldn't hybridize, but I don't know it for a fact.

I would guess that Guppy female is probably the biggest female he has ever seen, a good reason to get right to work ! :rofl:
From the way the Picta males 'court' a female, shes probably never been so dizzy !

If they do hybridize, you could create some of your own lines, much like AdrianHD over at Swampriver aquatics.

[Melody]

Do you remember what they were basing that on, Blaine? It sounds like there's a factor there that isn't the norm, and you know how abnormal I am... er...that is to say, how intriguing I find abnormalities. :wink:

This could explain MY past mate choices in fact :rofl: .

[AdrianHD]

Hi Blainep and Melody,
I will give good info on Red Picta..
There have been very few hobbiest that have collected regular color pictas, Gray..
Gray pictas have some coloration on body and fins but not like wild guppies.. They are more plain looking..
The pictas that have been in books and few universities thru out the years have been the gray , common type... Nothing was know about the red variety...

The red variety appeared in a Large 500 Gal container that I kept ..
Armando pou had collected wild endlers for me several times.. Each of those times
he would bring back few gray color pictas mixed in with the endlers..He caught them
intentionaly... Had told me he had seen one or two pictas with an unsual amount
of red color in population but was un able to catch them...
So what we did was empty a 500Gal container and put only pictas in it in hopes that one would show up at the end of summer.. There would be couple hundred fish to
pic from..
Well after about 1 1/2 years of population breeding on its own.. Couple males with
more red than normal appeared, similar to the ones he had seen but could not catch..
I called him and the next day he was at my home checking the red males out.. He was very excited and we both new we had something special...
I pulled out the two or three males showing red coloration ,bred them to young females and was able to produce few more males with red coloration....
The red color on these wild stock males was not a bright red like in the pictas
you see in hobby today...After secound and third generation of inbreeding the red
offspring ,I began to obtain variouse amounts of red coloration and patterns.
There are several degrees of red color you can obtain in the pictas..=
Full body color , Clear fins..
Full body color with red tail..
Red body with yellow dorsal
Red body with deep black markings
and several variations with little blue, purple and yellow markings...
I was going to devide in several color strains but did not do to tank space...
I concentrated on just red color..
Two years later after strain was well set producing mostly red males, I
began send pictas out into hobby.. The first to obtain was Asia and then every one else.. I had posted a year before on my wed site = soon to be available and had
a waiting list ... First ones I sent out was about five years ago..
(((((( The hobby , universities or any one person ,,,had not said , mention or reference red pictas in any way ))) until I introduce into hobby......

Later on many individuals claim to have gone and collect there own red pictas...
I had put on my wed site one out of five hundred in the wild are red... These collectors
Wrote articles on wed site noteing the same 500 figure.. Which is a figure Armando
and my self chose but were not really sure of...????

Any way.. Pictas are delicate to water conditions..They are best kept by them self..
The young are very small and eaten by guppies and most other livebearers..
They do not try to hybridize with guppies or other livebearers.. But theres always the
few Romeos that will try breed with any other species...

I have ( purposely ) tryed to hybridize with endlers and guppies.. No success... But would not dismiss that it is not possible to obtain offspring.. Some times you can try produce young but no offspring.. Other times the right combination may produce young.. The young might not look like a hybrid...

I have heard that Asian Hobbiest have been able to hybridize Pictas to guppies
and produce fertile offspring...I have not seen any picts , So am not sure..
I personally will not give up in producing fertile offspring.. I believe its a matter
of persistance.....
I had an unplanned incident but am not 100% sure if it was a cross ???
I had a ten gal tank with three female picts,, Supposely they were virgine..
I had picked them out of a tank picta tank at about one month of age ..
They were small and very skinny.. The tank had few phenop male mollies
in it.. After about three month , I found couple baby pictas,, I grew them up ..
They looked like pure pictas..I thought about , did not have etra tanks so
I did not persue any further for investigation... Mollies and guppies
inner breed , so I think its possible that they were hybrids..

I would keep them in a species tank only..
They like lots of plants, clean freash water added regularly and baby brine..
You can keep small colony in a ten gal.. about 20 fish maxt.. My opinion...

One more thing .. Red Female pictas do not Exist in the wild.... I have been able
to produce red females just as bright in color as males.. I keek these for my self
until am able to produce large amount to introduce into hobby..
At moment I have had few set backs with this project.. I lost the pics of the red females due to comp problems.. The females I have at moment do not have good red color,, But the genetics are there....I have produce them before...
I have sent this blood line out to several hobbiest and they have reported to me
being able to obtain redish looking females..
So in near future there will be red strain of male and female pictas...

I don't want to sound Like I Produce every type of rare livebearer..I'm
the Athority on livebearers,,,NO NO NO.... I don't want to come accross being
stuck up..... I have no need to lie or make up fake collections stories to get notice..
Thats one reason I give details on my projects.. I also enjoy offering the info..
And I am always open to Correction or Questions... I'm a fellow hobbiest like you all..
One of my goals it to produce new exciting strains of livebearers onto hobby..
Thank you,, AdrianHD

I just read other post on red picta..
I never put the Location where the red pictas came from on my Web Site..
So I guess some one just made up new location...
The red Pictas and gray regular color strains I have introduce into the
Are from ((Venezuela = Laguna La Malaguena)) They are the biggest strain of pictas..
Other countries Such as Brazil Don't have red color morphs and are a smaller fish...
This info I have not posted either...

[Melody]

I don't find you in the least arrogant either here or in our correspondence, Adrian. You know what you know and choose to share it. I wish more advanced breeders would do that. Anyone who resents advanced knowledge has their own issues - it's not your problem. :wink:

That said, I have been eyeing Picta Red on your site for years. All I saw was "Unavailable, unavailable, unavailable". It was mean of you to tease me like that for so long :laugh: . When I saw that Charles had some (which I assume came from you, directly or indirectly, but I'm not sure), I snapped them up. This past year or so I've seen them on a few wholesale lists, so they're definitly getting well spread.

The profile here is about Picta in general, hence the broad geographical range. I couldn't for the life of me remember where I heard the "1 in 500" figure, so I just said 'sources'...lol.

Thanks very much for the additional information. Accurate information on wild-types is priceless. I would like to copy the post and add it to our profile, if I may?

[AdrianHD]

Thank you Melody ,,
I some times get to serious about incorrect info.. But after a while , I get back to being jolly good fellow..lol

The reason I always had Not available ,, I had couple couple asian individuals =
Hobbiest. That would visit me,,, Buy all red pictas I had and wanted me to produce
only for them... They payed very handsomely At moment of visit.. This lasted few years... They were and are buisness men in Asia.... It's been few years now since I have been offering to every in hobby.. Reguardless the abundance of hobbiest offering them.. I still have small waiting list at $50 two pairs...

Melody, Some times I don't put location of collection on certain livebearers..
I do this at the beguing until plenty of specimens have been sent out... maybe couple years... This keeps a lot of missleading individuals from advertising....

I have sent Pictas to various individuals in U.K.
Netherlands, Spain,Europe, Canada and Germany , France and so on..

The Red Picta has been the most Expensive and popular Rare livebearers I have introduce onto hobby.. I don't always sell my fish.. Many times I give away reguardless
of type ....
Any way Pictas have a lot of potential for developing many different color Strains... At moment I don't have tank space ... Pictas can also be found
in blond variety... I had one male pop up in large pond out side.. The black marking
were not visible,, It was nice clear body fish... I was not able to get young from him..
But it's a good sign that blond can show up in any population...

Thanks for being understanding .. Like I wrote on other post.. I welcome
any corrections or questions reguarding what I write about..

A nother topic I enjoy very much is Gambusia..
AdrianHD

[Melody]

So all I had to do was visit you in a business suit? I could have done that, Mr. Jolly Good! :laugh:

Being a morph, do the Picta 'red' throw other colours on a regular basis? I didn't see anything but red in mine, but I didn't maintain the population that long. I get bored more quickly if I can't play with colour genetics. Had I known that the more commonly seen Picta strain and the Picta 'red' could produce other colours, I would have kept them. It's probably a good thing I didn't know actually, I would have had to buy another house. ::D:

Misinformation can be very innocently passed around the internet, especially when it comes to obscure species. When you only have a little information, you call that facts until you find out differently. That's why it's so important for breeders to talk about their experiences, even if they differ from the accepted facts. If there is one place that an open mind will serve us well, it's in fishkeeping. We don't have to be right or wrong, we just have to listen. :yes: The malicious people... well... it's a small world - they get what's coming to them eventually. :wink:

I've had the spotted Gambusia affinis, but my tank space for nippers is limited. I don't know a whole lot about them really, other than the basics. I love that white spotted version you have.

[Katalyst]

The wild smoke sailfins are stunning! And I just happen to be visiting Florida in early June. hmmmm :laugh:

[Melody]

:secret: Wear a business suit! :laugh:

[Namor]

Hello and welcome to CAC AdrianHD. I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts.

One of (if not thee best) attributes of CAC is the manner in which fellow hobbyists (of all experience levels) share their information and observations with each other.:yes:

[stanman]

When I turned over my velifera and petenensis to Charles, I also gave him a huge breeding population of the red pictas. Mine came directly from Armando and I was breeding them in a 29 gallon tank for a number of years. They were very easy when kept alone, fed alot of live baby brine shrimp among otehr foods and with large frequent water changes. I found that the produced a grey and a lovely golden(ish) female. I used to give them away. I wish I had known people were waiting for them at $50 a pair! I am sure Charles Clapsaddle has 1000's by now unless somethign happened. He also has a large bodied nezzie swordtail strain I raised for years.

[Melody]

2 pairs for $50 - Adrian usually sells in multiple pairs.

I'm glad you mentioned that as I wasn't sure where Charles got his, or I didn't remember anyway. That's where mine came from so it's nice to be able to trace the line. Thanks for the additional info! I'll have to be sure to update the profile with the information you gentleman have generously shared. I think you gurus need a transcriptionist so we can get all of the knowledge in your head, down on paper... er... screen. :wink: You're a wealth of information!

[GaryofMontreal]

Back to red pictas - this wouldn't be news to the people who've had them for awhile, but I just found fry from mine. There aren't many, but they look good and are eating.

The breeders came from Germany just a few weeks ago.

[blainep]

That's what I find with mine, smaller, but healthy broods.

Takes about 6 - 8 weeks for them to start to sex out.

[Melody]

Congrat's Gary, that's a pretty quick turn-around!

That's not fair... I want fish from Germany too! They do good work over there :yes: .