New to Salt - What do I need?

[OldMan]

My wife has decided that she simply must have a dwarf seahorse tank. I know just enough about salt to realize that I know nothing. My raw tap water has a TDS of about 325 ppm and a pH of about 7.8. I recognize the need to properly cycle a freshwater tank and assume that something similar is done with salty tanks. In freshwater, you cycle using ammonia and allowing the bacteria to build with no specific additions of bacterial aids or similar items to avoid stressing the fish by cycling with them in the tank. Is something similar done with salt tanks?
The recommendation for these fish is a gravity of about 1.02 but does that match up with typical saltwater fish or is it outside the norm so far that usual saltwater techniques won't work? I assume that I measure gravity with a hydrometer and I have seen them for sale in pet shops. If I need to grow algae, do I need any specific spectrum of light to do it? I know reefers use very high energy wavelengths compared to freshwater plant people but I am not looking to establish a reef coral environment so that may affect things too.
I do have RO water available because I have a well functioning RO in my home that I use for specific freshwater fish's needs. It is my understanding that salty folks use RO for something but don't know what. I thought it would be worthwhile to let you know it is an option that I have.

[Melody]

I'm not going to be very useful here but I thought I'd ask if you noticed the sticky (http://www.canadianaquariumconnection.com/forum/showthread.php?t=495)? It is a very good introductory article.

Mike is very approachable, so don't be shy about contacting him either (especially since he got you into this! lol).

[thegrandpoohbah]

I know nothing about seahorses except that they can be difficult to care for, especially if they are wild caught as they can be very finicky eaters. Get captive bred ones if at all possible, preferably ones that are already eating forzen foods and not live.

Use the RO water, not tap water unless you want lots of annoying algae. Cycle the tank with lots of live rock for 4-6 weeks. A SG of 1.02 seems really low. Generally people keep their tanks at 1.022-1.026. Do yourself a favour and spend a few extra dollars on a refractometer rather than a hydrometer. They are much more accurate and precise and can be found online for about $50: http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/skus/te/TESY-J107.asp?L+scstore+yrkb9130ff58fb58+1240943203.

As for the lighting, what do you plan to use? Most reefers use power compact fluorescents, T5HO or metal halide. Generally the bulbs will have a colour temp. of 10,000K and up plus actinic supplementation. If all you want is macro algae and no corals then 6,700K would be better.

Hope that helps.

[thegrandpoohbah]

Oh, and check out http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/index.php for even more info.

[BlueAbyss]

Hmm okay, so reefers use RO water because it is devoid of all the stuff that salt adds into the water, thereby avoiding problems with high concentrations of specific salts. Also, you must top off the tank regularly with RO water, since using any other water will also affect these concentrations.

READ READ READ! The only thing that happens quickly in a saltwater tank is a crash. Regular water changes will go a long way to avoiding potential problems... one of the things I've been reading about is called soft-cycling, involving keeping the ammonia level down while the tank cycles, so that you can keep some of the neat hitchhiking life that comes in on live rock. IMO, this is one of the neatest parts of having a 'reef' type aquarium is seeing what comes in on the rock, and high ammonia levels will go a long way in killing off that life.

[OldMan]

I have RO available but went to the posting that melody referred me to and found references to protein skimmers, extreme lighting and all kinds of fancy stuff that I had never heard of. The person who suggested the tank recommended using a 2 1/2 gallon tank, no bigger, and a sponge filter as the immediate needs along with use of BBS as the primary food.

[thegrandpoohbah]

2.5G? That will require a LOT of work to keep everything balanced. Nano tanks are not very forgiving. I'd recommend no less than 20G to start, but the bigger the better.

Sponge filters (or even sponge filter media) in SW just act as nitrate producing factories. That's fine for FW but not as desirable in SW. The biological filtration is handled by the live rock along with powerheads for water movement. A protein skimmer is great for removing dissolved organic compunds but not necessary if you are doing regular weekly water changes of 10-20%.

[OldMan]

Thanks for that GPB. I tried actually asking about using a larger tank when talking to the guy about getting this started and he repeated that a 2 1/2 was maximum. It seems he has seen the fish allow waste food buildup when feeding live BBS unless the tank volume was kept quite small and the BBS were easy to find. He also suggested a continuous feeding of BBS using a breeder/dispenser combination that is available at Dr Foster & Smith. The concept was that seahorses need to graze constantly and the automatic system gave them a non-stop supply of food small enough for the fish. I may need to write back to him directly about these issues. I have power heads but how do you keep the tiny fish out of it without a sponge of some kind? I have only ever used a power head to drive a sponge in my FW tanks.

[CACAdmin]

The only seahorse I ever saw in a tank was quite large (about 5 inches) and was fed with by squirting food right next to it with a pipette.
I have power heads but how do you keep the tiny fish out of it without a sponge of some kind?
I gather this seahorse is very tiny (you did say dwarf). Maybe that's the reason for the 2.5 gallon max tank. How big is it?

[OldMan]

The adult size is about an inch tall.

[BlueAbyss]

The dwarf seahorses are very difficult. They must be fed at least 3 or 4 times a day, with the filters off, and with a pipette (because they move slowly and are clumsy). The problem here will be keeping the pristine water quality.

Speaking of water quality, if you are going to try these, invest in a protein skimmer or be prepared to do a water change every day or two. Feeding as heavily as these guys require, it would be a major challenge to keep the water quality up there.

Oh, also, seahorses tend to do best in macroalgae dominated tanks.

[Melody]

The adult size is about an inch tall.

I've always wanted to keep seahorses, even when I was a little girl. :Smile: The mini size of these makes them particularly intriguing.

I was browsing for a book for my little fishkeeping niece today, when I ran across this one and thought of you. According to the reviews, it is info-rich and perfect for the beginner. It's also inexpensive if you want to have a look around locally for it:

The Complete Guide to Dwarf Seahorses in the Aquarium (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0793805341?ie=UTF8&tag=canadiansinte-20&linkCode=as2&camp=15121&creative=390961&creativeASIN=0793805341) By Alisa Wagner Abbott

[OldMan]

Thanks for that link Mel. I found that book in hardcover on E-bay for about $15 US delivered. Maybe I can get this sorted out at my house. Meanwhile, I am the one in this house looking into things. I have already received the continuous BBS feeder that Mike Hellweg recommended originally and am ready to try using it on my Heterandria formosa tank to make sure it works to spec before bringing in any seahorses that would have to rely on it.

[CACAdmin]

You get to do the work, she gets to enjoy the seahorses. :wink: You see, your wife knows that you well enough to know you will investigate all the requirements to help ensure her success with the seahorses.

[OldMan]

I'm afraid it will be a lot like "her" guppy tank. I get to feed it and do water changes, she gets to walk into the fish room and admire "her" tank.

[CACAdmin]

... and you enjoy doing it for her because you get to see how much she enjoys them. Much better this way. If she started maintaining her own tanks, she just might feel entitled to asking you to share 1/2 the fishroom. :wideeyed: :laugh:

[Melody]

I think he does it because he knows the law of Nature...

If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

I have that on a wood sign, hanging in my kitchen in case the kid forgets. :wink: The matching one says "Misbehaving children will be sold as slaves". The truth is out - it's not my child rearing that makes him such a good boy, it's the fear and intimidation. :laugh:

Glad you got the book, Mr. OM, I hope it's helpful. Now when you have a spare moment, I'd love to see a post in the nutrition section about the auto BBS feeder, if you wouldn't mind please. I don't think I've ever seen a review for one and can't even picture it. It would be fantastic for optimum fry growth, considering most people can't hang out all day feeding them every couple of hours.:yes:

[OldMan]

The one I bought was like this one.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=10692

Mike Hellweg had recommended it but I don't have it set up and running yet to tell you from personal experience. I expect to get it going this weekend but still need to buy some sea salt to get it going. It says it can be run with table salt but if I want the brine shrimp to go to a salty aquarium, I will use the right salt for my experiment. Why set up and try one thing then do something else? Yes, I am that strict about most things that I try. I want the experiment to match the practice as closely as possible. This thing is made by the same company that makes the TOM rapids HOB canister for 10 gallon tanks.

[BlueAbyss]

Sounds like you're well on your way to maintaining some dwarf seahorses :biggrin:

[OldMan]

I sure hope so BlueAbyss. Meanwhile, if I am successful, the glory goes to the person that really wanted the seahorses, not me.

[Melody]

Nonsense, we will glorify you! Standing ovations & the whole works.

How's it going so far?

[Pamelajo]

Good luck with this project and keep us posted.

[BlueAbyss]

Have you checked out NR (http://www.nano-reef.com)? It's been a pretty excellent resource for me, I'm sure there's someone there with some experience with these guys... also Canreef (http://www.canreef.com)has been instrumental with helping me get started.

How is this going BTW? My saltwater supplies come in this week... I'd like to hear some encouraging stories!

[OldMan]

I am somewhat encouraged by the book that I got. I am about halfway through my first read of it and it seems that these guys are likely to be easy for me to keep so far. Everything I have read until now leads me to believe a filter cycled in my FW tank will do what it needs to do in SW because I will be controlling nitrates with water changes anyway. I guess if I was going for a hard core SW I would need to develop added anaerobic bacteria that convert nitrates to N2 gas but that happens in "live sand" which the author is advising against because things can live in it that are dangerous to the dwarf seahorses. The specific bacteria being called out for ammonia converters and nitrite converters are the same ones thought to be responsible for a FW cycle so I will probably cycle a filter in FW and see how that goes in the SW tank by using a bit of ammonia to test it once the tank is salted.

[Melody]

That's interesting - you'd think their survival would be based on entirely different requirements. That's bacteria for you though - geared for survival and able to adapt & evolve on a dime.

[Gobies et al]

... The specific bacteria being called out for ammonia converters and nitrite converters are the same ones thought to be responsible for a FW cycle so I will probably cycle a filter in FW and see how that goes in the SW tank by using a bit of ammonia to test it once the tank is salted.


Please let us know how this goes for you. :yes: I vaguely recall, from years ago when I first set up my brackish tank, that the bacteria was different for ~ .002 salinity you went up. As with almost everything, with more reading you will read others stating the opposite. :Research:

[OldMan]

The book I am reading on them cites salinity numbers of about 1.021 SG but gives a reference to bacterial species that are the ones I have been led to believe are the ones we use in a FW tank. I have not yet tried anything but will do so before I even order the fish for this tank. As FW people go, I am very careful with my fish, and it usually pays me dividends. There is never a question of my fish thriving. The only place that I seem to have trouble is breeding the fish that require an extreme move in temperatures or such to get them started. I can never bring myself to do those extreme moves for fear of harming the breeders.

[Gobies et al]

I find it hard to do the big changes too. It was almost traumatic to dump 25 gm/liter all at once into the tank with the Amano zoae in it, then stir! :err:

The tank that I switched from freshwater to brackish was occupied during the process, so I took it very slowly. Probably more cautious than necessary, especially as I only went up to 1.008. I'm usually inclined to err on the side of caution.

[BlueAbyss]

Yes the bacteria are the same, but the freshwater strain will die off while the saltwater strain grows in, and there will be a lag while the saltwater strains catch up. Be sure the tank is entirely cycled before moving any further... and don't forget the live rock!

I got my refractometer today =)