Need some advice

[Pamelajo]

I would like to get an air pump and need ideas on what I should get that can handle what I want to do.

I want to run air lines to the following 5 places:
1. From basement up stairs via the wall to two tanks on this wall and then split it to two tanks with two sponge filters in each tank. Total 4 sponges
2. From basement across basement ceiling 15 feet then upstairs and split it to two tanks on this wall. Total 4 sponges.
3. In basement one wall two tanks with 2 sponges in each tank. Total 4
4. In basement on different wall running across basement ceiling 10 feet to two tanks with 2 sponge filters in each. Total 4 sponges.
5. In basement across ceiling to one tank with two filters. Total 2 sponges.
I also have a 6 place but not sure how I will run the air to it, but would like to have something powerful enough to handle it when I do.
20 sponge filters at various distances.
Right now I am running aquaclears on almost all my tanks and would like to save hydro and get rid of hob and covering intakes.

Hope this makes sense?

Now the other thing is do I run one line to each set of two tanks on one wall then branch off with two air hoses and then branch off with two more at the tank or
branch off with 4 lines coming from the main hose the runs to the floor.

[OldMan]

Pam, I have no idea on the pump that is big enough but basic principles say that you need to run PVC pipe, not air line hose to the remote locations. The hose has such a small diameter that even a 20 foot run to a single air stone will see you lose most of the pump's capacity to the friction the hose creates for the air flow. If you start multiplying that loss by several fold to serve more than a single bubbler, the line losses will do in a huge air compressor.
If you run PVC sized as a multiple of the number of uses at each place instead, the flow will be slow enough through the larger diameter pipe that the line losses will be minimized. If you had 16 air uses, try a pipe 4 times the diameter of your hose. You use the square root multiplier because you are interested in the cross-section of the pipe, not the raw diameter. For a long distance, add at least one more size beyond the calculated diameter to account for the length factor.

[thegrandpoohbah]

I agree with OldMan, PVC is the way to go. Go check out any LFS that uses air driven sponge filters in their racks. Usually the pump is hooked up to a series of PVC pipes that run along the back of the rows of tanks. At each tank the PVC is tapped with an airline fitting and valve so the air to each tank can be controlled individually.

[bobp9500]

I have run 180 tanks on one clear length of plastic tubing for more than 25 years with never a problem.
Use a fairly thick walled tube (say 1/8 inch max.wall)about 3/4 inch OD and drill holes where you can insert one inch of 1/4 inch rigid tubing. No glue or silicone necessary. Cut the rigid tubing on an angle to make insertion easier. Now regular airline tubing can be attached and run to your valves on individual tanks.
You can run this tubing all over the basement ceiling and just attach a line where you want to go through a small drilled hole in the above floor.
I hope you can understand my directions , if not I'll try to elaborate.---boB

[Melody]

I have thought of doing this myself so I am reading with great interest. Most of my tanks are in one area but not on the same stand or the same wall. It's also a living space so it can't be hideous...lol. I'm getting tired of a zillion power bars. The industrial pumps are pricey though, yes?

Sorry to butt into your thread Pam, I hope I don't confuse matters. You can always tell me to shut up until you're done if you wish :laugh: .

[Pamelajo]

Mel you are not confusing matter. I have 6 tanks in the basement (old basement) and 4 in the dining room above it. Aquaclears on every tank except one that has shrimp in it. I would like to totally convert to sponges, not worry about intakes sucking up babies etc.

[GaryofMontreal]

These are the best: http://www.jehmco.com/html/central_air_pumps.html

I bought the second one up to run 85 air outlets very effectively. It's expensive, but it will outperform and outlast any diaphragm pump.

[Pamelajo]

The lph45? Did you get it from them? I know it will not be cheap to get one, but in the long run should save a lot of hydro compared to 9 aquaclears.

[Pamelajo]

I have run 180 tanks on one clear length of plastic tubing for more than 25 years with never a problem.
Use a fairly thick walled tube (say 1/8 inch max.wall)about 3/4 inch OD and drill holes where you can insert one inch of 1/4 inch rigid tubing. No glue or silicone necessary. Cut the rigid tubing on an angle to make insertion easier. Now regular airline tubing can be attached and run to your valves on individual tanks.
You can run this tubing all over the basement ceiling and just attach a line where you want to go through a small drilled hole in the above floor.
I hope you can understand my directions , if not I'll try to elaborate.---boB

I think I understand this, you have the plastic tubing with the rigid pieces inserted and running on the basement ceiling and then branch with little air lines where is needs to go to a tank.

What kind of clear plastic tubing are you using something similar to the tubing for a python. What kind or where can I find the rigid tubing?

[Pamelajo]

When I first envisioned this I was thinking airlines running along from basement to each tank, but using pvc or rigid tubing bigger than the air hoses makes a lot more sense. I was thinking to that a flexible hose bigger than the actual air line would be easier to manover up through the floor as both set of tank are close to cold air returns so I can use them instead of drilling through the floor. Bringing this flexible tubing up and then running the air lines from it. Thanks for all your input. I am slowly buying a couple of sponge filters and box filters(snails need to add oxyster shell) at a time but the pump with be the big expense. One of the guys in my club is going to try to make some sponge filters so hoping to get a couple off him, too.

[OldMan]

You might want to scan down the page on that link that Gary provided. It clearly states that the company will help you with the design of a system to match your particular needs and will advise on the right size compressor for your needs. My experience with manufacturers doing things like that has been that I end up getting what I really need rather than the overkill that I usually end up with when I design things myself.

[Pamelajo]

Thanks OM. I will do that.

[GaryofMontreal]

OldMan is right - not that I had as much sense when I bought mine. I first purchased a linear piston no name, to save money. It made enough noise to wake the senate, and then died. Jehmco offers discounts to AKA members, and I'd met the guy at AKA conventions, so I tried them next. The linear piston they sell is amazing. It runs cheaply and it kicks. I barely hear it.
A friend with an import business bought three diaphragm pumps the same week. One is still running, and you hear it. Several of my friends have bought Jehmcos since, and they love them.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj193/montrealguy_2008/IMG_1166.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj193/montrealguy_2008/IMG_1165.jpg

[Pamelajo]

I have heard some rumblings in my club about diaphragm filters. I was looking at the model down from yours. But will definitely write to them.

[GaryofMontreal]

Diaphragm filters wear out with back pressure. They're cheaper, but have to be replaced more. If you're aiming for a multi-floor set-up, you'll need consistent pressure. Also, beware of depth. For my deep tanks, I use either aqua-clears or homemade top of the tank filters. The air system is for 20, 15, 10 and 5 gallon tanks.
I'm not going to be able to keep Geophagus with sponges, as they need current. I find my montezumae and other swordtails really like a high oxygen content, and that comes from my top of the tank set-ups.

I'm running air in relatively shallow tanks. The deeper you get, the fewer lines you can run.

[Pamelajo]

I am running a 75 & 20, 32 & 10 upstairs and downstairs, 55 & 29, 32 & 29 and a 10 and want two filters in each with the exception of maybe the 20 and 10's

[Pamelajo]

Okay I think we are going to move all the tanks to the basement to make things easier. Partially also because we want to redo the DR floor and I think the weight will break the tiles or indent the wood depending on which we decide to go with.
Last week one of the aquaclear malfunctioned and we ended up with 10 gallons of water on the floor and running into the basement, so this way if something floods or gets over filled in the basement it won't be a big deal.

[GaryofMontreal]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how much quicker maintenance is when everything's close together. It increases the 'one more tank' temptation though, because it is easier.

[Pamelajo]

Hubby is the "one more tank" temptation destroyer. ::(:
Except when he is off snowmobiling.::D:
:secret: Right now the one more tank is going to be set up at work.
This move is going to take a bit of a change over, he has to do some more wiring to accommodate the extra tanks so I can eliminate some of the power bars.

[Melody]

I am going to keep reading as this moves along and leave the focus on Pam's project. This has the feel of a very valuable reference thread because I'm sure the situation isn't uncommon. I don't want to clutter it up by taking it in a zillion directions. I'm in no rush, so I'll follow Pam's project and I can post when it's time for mine. Thanks for your input everyone, I'm learning a lot. :yes:

[Pamelajo]

I have order a couple of sponge filters and box filters from mops for the eventual switch over. Hubby has to do some wiring first, once he figures out were all the tanks are going to go. I am seriously considering the pump from Jemco. So far I have found nothing here like it.

One of the guys at my club is making sponge filters so I will be getting some from him to try out, and save some money that way.