Patience

[GaryofMontreal]

Patience pays off! I've been doing very well with the oddball Xiphophorus - getting plenty of fry and having them grow out well. The fish that has frustrated me has been the "Otapo" helleri Cadafi graciously got for me a few months ago. I love this wild form swordtail, as it has a largely clear body with green/ivory tones, and a firm black stripe along its flanks. One of my adult males has black mottling and the other doesn't. It's a striking fish, rivalling my montezumae (but clearly out-beautied by nezahualcoyotl).
And this evening, I have found an enormous drop of fry co-existing with their parents. The exotically named Xiphophorus are very nice indeed, but you should never turn your nose up at a wild-type helleri.
I'm really pleased at finding those fry :Smile:. I was starting to worry I might lose the fish with time.

[CACAdmin]

Congrats! I figure you're probably doing this :red_dance: right now. Instead, I think you should be netting a bunch of those fry out of the tank before they mysteriously disappear overnight:wideeyed:

[GaryofMontreal]

Good advice taken. I read your message, stopped dancing and took out about a dozen and put them in a 5 gallon. Interestingly, once I started stirring up the very rocky and mossy tank, I found there were a number of young from a brood I'd guess were about a week to ten days old in with today's results. My other female still looks big. Hmmm. I got fooled there.
I feed even the adults with bbs every second day, so that probably helped. Leftovers are useful.

[Melody]

Congrat's! I think people are gaining appreciation for all wild-type Livebearers and some respect for the true Helleri species is long overdue.:yes:

[Pamelajo]

Congrats Gary!!!

[tiga]

congrats gary they grow fast so make sure you have lots of room for them

[OldMan]

Nice going Gary. I just want to see the same thing with my wild type helleri. I got them as juvies and am starting to think the late developing male is infertile.

[GaryofMontreal]

I have two wild-type helleri, Otapo and a Belize form. It's completely subjective as an observation, but the females don't get that big wide lumbering look domestic strains always seemed to have when I kept them in the past. They expand before they drop, but they remain streamlined and agile.
I also have the impression the fry are a bit bigger at the start. That may be wrong as my last domestic swordtail brood was years ago. As a kid, I raised green and brick swords, but I haven't been a kid for 35 years.
Anyway, the streamlined thing has fooled me. The females don't look especially gravid for swordtails, but the fry appear.
I would have been reasonable to expect fry three months ago, and it's taken until now. Patience.

[CACAdmin]

Glad to hear you rescued some before they became participants in a magical disappearing act. Cool that your found more from an earlier drop. They're obviously great at hiding. Those must be the smart ones who (I'm sure after looking through the gaping hole and down the throat of an adult:eek: ) learned to bury themselves at the bottom of the tank and out of sight.

Having not bred x. helleri, I can't speak for the lumbering look you speak of and if it's typical of the domestic strains of x. helleri. However, all of my livebearer females (xiph's and others) get huge just before dropping.:wideeyed: (My x. maculatus literally waddle :rolleyes:and a pregnant Limia Triden looks like she's carrying the equivalent of the space shuttle fuel tank strapped to her belly.) So I can understand how you were easily deceived.

[fishclubgirl]

I am excellent at determining when my mollies,platies and black swords are ready!! Put them in the breeding trap at 8 at night and take them out in the morning and 9 times out of 10, I've got more. However I got some cream swordtails and I keep scooping out fry from their tanks when I don't think they're ready.This is why I keep fish, they never seize to mystify me. Now if only I could keep them away from the pickles and ice cream!!

[Melody]

Put them in the breeding trap at 8 at night and take them out in the morning and 9 times out of 10, I've got more.

Scooping them probably has a lot to do with it - the stress of spending time in breeder traps can bring on the birth. Mollies especially shouldn't be moved when they're in the advanced stages as it often results in premature birth. A brooder tank or preferrably a community tank with lots of cover will be much easier on the female and ensure full term fry. To build a strong line, it's also best not to save each and every fry so nature has a chance to weed out the weak offspring.

Anyway, the streamlined thing has fooled me. The females don't look especially gravid for swordtails, but the fry appear.

If domestics are primarily Helleri, they pack 'em tight like the wild-types. If they have a lot of Maculatus in them, they'll look larger. That's how it appears to go around here anyways. :yes:

[fishclubgirl]

Perhaps I should clarify about my mollies. They are schenops and they are ready to pop(so much that they're square). Their fry are definitely full term and usually quite healthy. My tanks are usually overloaded(now that you can lecture me on!!) so I have no choice but to use breeding traps. My mollies have paid for many of my other fish purchases. We also have good water for mollies in calgary!!!

[Melody]

That was a suggestion. Suggestions are short. When I'm lecturing, it will be pages and pages long. :laugh:

The information provided for the consideration of all members is about domestic livebearing females, not yours specifically. Domestic livebearing females often have issues during and after giving birth, so minimizing the stress involved in the process is always a good idea. Chasing the female and putting her in a trap will stress her out that much more and can bring on the birth, which Mollies (Sphenops or otherwise) are particularly vulnerable to. If you feel yours cope with it fine, then that's great. It's just an explanation as to why they give birth when you put them in the trap.

We all have our methods and the great thing about forums is we get to hear about many of them, because none of us will ever know everything there is to know about this hobby.

[fishclubgirl]

You're exactly right. We all have our ways of doing things and myself, I like to keep an open mind. I learn much from being on these forums. The thing I like about fishkeeping is the hobby is constantly evolving. If I was still using my corner filters now, I'd kill myself(as well as most of my fish). No offense against corner filters of course, as I'm sure there's someone who loves them!! Just not my style of fishkeeping!!

[GaryofMontreal]

The equipment evolves, our knowledge evolves, but hey, I love corner filters...
I know what you mean, I'm just the low-tech guy who couldn't resist.

Wait, I wrote "low tech"? Okay, cheap...

[Melody]

ROFL If we're talking about box filters, they're more efficient & versatile than many methods of filtration. It's an economical cannister filter is all. You certainly don't have fish killing issues and that's the main thing. :NoWay:

If I ever get around to purchasing an industrial pump (she says like it's a simple matter of going to a store and whipping out her debit card :rolleyes: ), I'd go with box filters rather than sponge filters. I need the filter media options. Those Lee 3-way box filters are huge, providing way more filtration than other methods. They're only as good as the pump behind them though. All I know is I have to change my standard HOB filter cartridges a good 10 times before I even have to check my box filters. :yes:

Now UGF's - those things should be outlawed! :evil:

[GaryofMontreal]

Ugfs outlawed?!? Okay, because I don't have any. I also really love hang on the back aquaclears, which I use on all my larger tanks.

What kind of filters do you use, fishclubgirl? Just curious about other people's set-ups. I've noticed references to a number of brands on this forum that we don't see in Montreal, largely because Hagen is a hometown company here.

[fishclubgirl]

I'm a aquaclear girl myself(Nobel peace prize to whomever invented those). I use a larger filter as I tend to overstock my tanks. I'm not a fan of ugfs but am sure somebody else is!! As for stressed out mollies, what about stressed out me,lol? Chasing molly fry in a heavily planted tank last night at 10:30 before they get eaten was not my idea of serenity. I think I'll let the mollies be stressed as opposed to me!!
After all who's in charge here? Stupid question fishclubgirl, the fish are!!

[CACAdmin]

After all who's in charge here? Stupid question fishclubgirl, the fish are!!
:laugh: The fish are always in charge. I'm forever being outsmarted by a fish. However, tell that to a non-fishkeeper and you'll get very strange looks. :twitcy:

Gary, how are the new fry doing? Before you know it, they'll be eating you out of house and home.

[GaryofMontreal]

The fry I caught are growing well, and the ones I missed are no longer hiding, but are swimming around right in front of the four full-sized adults in the tank. The tank's arranged so they can run for cover if needs be, but there are no signs of any aggression from the adults.
The roseni in the tank facing theirs are probably totally disgusted with my 'lousy plant-hugging non-cannibalistic sorry excuses for hungry parents' across the way, but that's life.

[CACAdmin]

Glad to hear they're all doing well. :Smile:

The roseni in the tank facing theirs are probably totally disgusted with my 'lousy plant-hugging non-cannibalistic sorry excuses for hungry parents' across the way, but that's life.
:rofl:

[Melody]

The fry I caught are growing well, and the ones I missed are no longer hiding, but are swimming around right in front of the four full-sized adults in the tank. The tank's arranged so they can run for cover if needs be, but there are no signs of any aggression from the adults.
The roseni in the tank facing theirs are probably totally disgusted with my 'lousy plant-hugging non-cannibalistic sorry excuses for hungry parents' across the way, but that's life.

LOL Maybe they'll inspire better parental practices in the Roseni tank. Any parental practice at all that doesn't involve dinner plans would be an improvement.

[CACAdmin]

LOL Maybe they'll inspire better parental practices in the Roseni tank. Any parental practice at all that doesn't involve dinner plans would be an improvement.

:rofl: Definitely!