Nothobranchius guntheri fry

[MDahms]

Being a new member I thought I would share some of my fish. I have about 13 or 14 fry of Nothobranchius guntheri - Zanzibar red that are just starting to colour up. The males are already starting to display to each other and will have to be separated from the weaker fry some time soon. Right now the fry are in a 2.5 gallon tank but there is a paludarium waiting to house some of the adults. These fish grow very fast and seem to be aggressive feeders, just look at that full belly. I will try to update with photos of the paludarium once some of the moss etc. has grown in on the wet wall, looks pretty drab right now.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2533/4122526881_15a28dbcfa.jpg

I have a larger riprarium which is a tank that simulates the edge of an area of water. The plants are grown in clear suction cuped planters and this allow plants like Cryptocoryne to be grown emersed and to bloom. I have some African butterfly fish in the tank right now although there was a recent probelm with ammonia after I swapped out one of the sponge filters, not going to do that again. The piece of wood in the middle is gone because it seemed to be rotting and adding to the ammonia problems. I will try to get some photos of them another time as well as new photos of the plants because there have been more added since the photo was taken. I would love to get some Killies or wild Betta species in a set up like this. Maybe a riprarium for my South American killies. :yes:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2562/4123299182_f335d4d542.jpg

Mike

[CACAdmin]

Neat fish and cool tanks. Thanks for sharing. What size tank is the riprarium? An intriguing concept for a tank. It must be beautiful to see the emersed plants bloom.

[Melody]

What an awesome set-up! I have no eye for such things, or not one that communicates with my brain anyway....lol...I can appreciate a finished product though. ::D:

Guntheri are striking fish, once they colour up, I can see why you have them. :yes:

[GaryofMontreal]

Those are really attractive tank set-ups. You've gotten me thinking about why I've never tried a well thought and presented set-up like that, especially with the plants. Hmm.
Nothobranchius aren't fish that strike me as ideal for a complex tank, due to their short lives, the breed them quickly or else pressure and their need for hard water. You could probably keep the main group in a good set up and have a couple of pairs in a breeding tank. At least with guentheri you aren't going to have to incubate the eggs for months and months. They're pretty quick.
I could see that working fantastically with a couple of pairs of a colourful Aphyosemion species. Some Chromaphyosemions would be nice in there, as would ogoense, striatum or one of the Kathetys types.
A friend used to have a tank with poison dart frogs at the back, and a little stream in the front full of Pseudepiplatys annulatus. It was really a cool tank, though it didn't work in the long run as the epis had nowhere to breed.

[MDahms]

The Rhiprarium is a 30 gallon long, looks a little beat up in the photo. :nah:
I saw some black air line tubing today and should have picked it up, would look better than the bright blue that is in there now.
I need to find a good fish friendly way of cleaning the glass in my set ups, any suggestions?

Gary thanks for the input. I started with Nothobranchius sp. but am planning on keeping mostly South American annuals like Simpsonichthys. The clown killies would be a great addition to the naturalistic tank but I have yet to see them offered, will have to keep a look out. My paludarium is bare bottom with only potted plants growing emersed and a piece of driftwood weighed down with slate for some Singapore moss and an Anubias species to grow on. I figured if there were no substrate the substrate spawning species would work for me as long as I gave them a container of peat to spawn in. Do you think that a sand substrate would deter the soil spawners from laying eggs other than in a container if one were offered. I may just experimant with some of the fish and see how they do but I will be using bare bottomed 10 gallon tanks for breeders and may just keep the more complex set up for other fish. Betta channoides is one fish I would like to try and breed in a a set up like my riprarium. I am really into plants so it's a win win situation when I can cram as many plants as possible into the tank.

For some reason I am not attracted to the Aphyosemion species, something about their baody shape. I should do some more reading on the plant spawning Killies to see what is out there but so far the only one I have seen that I was really drawn to was the Pseudepiplatys you mentioned. I think I will need to get to an auction to find any of those fish locally.

Mike

[MDahms]

I found a really great site if anyone is interested in looking at Killifish photos. There are many plant spawning species shown but there are also some annuals including some Simpsonichthys species.

Check out the gallery (http://www.alfanita.se/index.html)

Mike

[Xiph]

That is a very nice tank! I've like to set one up like that, but just don't have the room. Sigh.

[Melody]

but just don't have the room.

In the future, please speak in a language our members can understand.

:DevilGrin:

[MDahms]

I hear you. :yes:
I because I grow plants indoors I have almost no room for tanks. That riprarium is on my dresser in my bedroom because it's the only place it could fit. I am hoping that I can figure out a rack system to hold my killifish tanks because I NEED more. ::D:

Mike

[Pamelajo]

Awesome tank set up!

[CACAdmin]

I am hoping that I can figure out a rack system to hold my killifish tanks because I NEED more. ::D:

Mike
NEED more? Now that's a concept many of us can relate to in a big way. :laugh:

[MDahms]

When I look at photos of some of the Killies out there I feel like a kid in a candy store, where to start. I figure as long as I stick to South American species from now on how much trouble can I get into? Wait don't answer that I already know the answer. ::D:


I think I am a collector at heart although that is not my motivation. Curiosity and a desire to gain experience and learn first hand is a major part of what drives me. I am endlessly fascinated by the beauty of nature and just can't get enough.

Mike

[Melody]

She needs people to appreciate her multi-faceted beauty. Too many people walk right by it and that results in complacency. Besides, it's good for the soul to stop and appreciate the little things and remember what a miracle they are.

When you place a palm lightly on top of grass, it tickles. We walk all over free smiles every day. :yes:

[MDahms]

I thought I would take a few more photos of the male from earlier in my post. Photographing fish is not easy! :no:

He is starting to colour up more each day. Right now it looks like there are five males and seven or eight females. The males are spunky little guys, lots of energy but still only about 2 cm long.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2668/4131493044_bd8b682e39.jpg

Mike

[Pamelajo]

Cute little guy.

[CACAdmin]

I thought I would take a few more photos of the male from earlier in my post. Photographing fish is not easy! :no:

We have yet to figure out how to make them stay still. :wink: :laugh:

Cute little guy.
:yes:

[Melody]

I thought I would take a few more photos of the male from earlier in my post. Photographing fish is not easy! :no:

He is starting to colour up more each day. Right now it looks like there are five males and seven or eight females. The males are spunky little guys, lots of energy but still only about 2 cm long.

Mike

Rumour has it that the American Livebearer Association's mag will cover photography in the next issue. I'm looking forward to it - I need all of the help I can get.

[Pamelajo]

Rumour has it that the American Livebearer Association's mag will cover photography in the next issue. I'm looking forward to it - I need all of the help I can get.
:eek:You need all the help you can get???:nah:

[OldMan]

Are you starting rumors again Mel? I know you are in a position to know something about the content and look forward to learning about taking more pictures.

[MDahms]

I am pretty good at photography but admittedly lazy at times. I know I should drag out the tripod more than I do and with fish I think it's even more important. I have yet to figure out the best method to light the subject and the lush carpet of duckweed that I keep in my fry tanks does not help with the lighting situation.

Mike

[Melody]

I'm trying very hard to not look at you with bitter resentment due to my own lack of ability, Mike. It's my new year's resolution to grow as a person... although it's not the new year yet so I may indulge it for the time being.:laugh:

Pam, you're a lovely person, a supportive friend, always good for an ego boost and an expert cook... are you sure you won't marry me? Hubby can still be your boyfriend, c'mon!

Mr. OM, :secret: I think there's TWO articles, but one required permissions so I'm not sure if it was included or not. Issues should start arriving the first or second week of December, it's all but put to bed. There's a contest too! :pompom:

[MDahms]

Well Melody the photos are not getting any better, then again I did not really spend more than a few minutes taking them either. I wanted to show the progression of colour on the dominant male and his challenger who is less brightly coloured.

This is the dominant male, now just over 2 cm long. Another blurry photo but you get the idea.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2586/4142450732_376db88cee.jpg

This is his rival although they rarely have disputes, occasional posturing is about as far as it goes.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2589/4141693243_08e4933bd6.jpg

There may be two more males that have not developed colour even though they are of almost equal size and age. I will be transferring many of the fish to the paulidarium soon so that they can begin breeding in containers of peat.

Mike

[CACAdmin]

I'm curious as to whether the intensity of the color might not only be something that develops with age but if it is affected by dominance (namely the dominant male showing more intense color). It'll be interesting to watch these males develop over time.

[GaryofMontreal]

Absolutely. Colours on these fish will switch up as soon as the dominant male's out. Guentheri is one of the least colourful Nothobranchius, but as Mike's photos show, that's relative. The blurry picture is a really good male.
They're one of those "orchid subsets" of the hobby - you can spend your entire hobby on the one Genus. I know fishkeepers who have kept nothing but the various Notho species for decades and aren't the least bit bored.
Even if they weren't beautiful, the natural history of these fish is astonishing.

[MDahms]

One more of the males is starting to show a little more colour today. The most colourful male is turning out to be a very attractive fish, can't wait to see him in another month.
I moved these fish as a group from the 2.5 gallon rearing tank to the paulidarium where there is more room as well as a container of peat for them to spawn in. The fish are busy checking out their new home so I could not get a photo of them just yet.

Here is a photo of the paulidarium with the front doors open. This site beside my desk, a great place to enjoy the fish and plants while on the computer.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2615/4146115818_7a43197f3d.jpg

Here is a view through the open doors so that the wet wall is visible. I used an aqua lifter with a pre filter and an inline mini filter to supply a constant trickle of water so that I could grow Java fern and Java moss on the cork bark wall. There is also a cutting of Dischidia superba growing off to the right of the wet wall where there is some constantly moist sphagnum moss. Lots of bacteria living on the wall should help break down ammonia and a sponge filter completes the set up. The lights consist of two compact flourescents, a 6500K daylight bulb and a warm white compact flourescent.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2623/4146114882_7457655fcd.jpg

A view down into the water area shows Cryptocoryne wedentii growing emersed in pots in the left corner along the back wall. There is an Anubias barteri var coffeefolia growing attached to a piece of lava rock and an Anubias lanceolata growing along with some Singapore moss on a piece of driftwood. The plants can easily be removed if need be and the tank is bare bottomed to help keep up with cleanliness. The plants still need some time to grow in but things are starting to take shape. I think the Java moss on the wall will look really nice in a year or so.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2744/4146117078_6552ae59a2.jpg

Hopefully the fish will start showing some breeding behavior soon. So far they have not found the opening to the peat container. I hope the bit of sphagnum moss I used to top the peat does not turn them off because if it's light colour. I know they usually like to spawn in a dark substrate.

Mike

[CACAdmin]

The paulidarium is beautiful. Love the moss wall. Makes me want to grab a book and sit next right next to it with the fish for company.

[GaryofMontreal]

This thread makes me think too much! I have the luxury of a fishroom, and the first thing I see when I open the door is a battered old 77 gallon. It's a good tank with a thriving colony of Goodeids in it, but methinks I'm inspired to lower the water level by 25% and get more creative with it.
It'll never be as nice as that paludarium, but I think I see where I can take it...
Thanks for the inspiration.

[Melody]

I always envy these things but never find time to do them. This actually speaks of a lack of dedication to the task but saying I don't have time sounds better...lol. I am one of those people who would love to have a beautifully planted tank or something like this, but I'll never be into that part of the hobby enough to spend the time on it. Apparently, I can't have it both ways and boy does it show.

Thanks for sharing the pictures! They are lucky fish indeed to have such a beautiful and functional home.

[Noctame]

Would shrimp like a setup like that considering they are always escaping? :P

[MDahms]

Thanks for the nice comments everyone. This is my first paulidarium but not my first terrarium or vivarium so I have some experience building them. For anyone that is interested I use the Great Stuff foam method which is really just expanding foam for sealing cracks which does a great job of sticking to the glass and holding the cork bark in place. After the foam has cured it is coated a small section at a time with black silicon and then covered in coconut coir which is the consistency of peat moss and voila a natural bachground. Some reef keepers were also experimenting with making artificial rocks using this foam but that is not something I am experienced with. The foam can be shaped with a knife after it fully cures so you can be as creative as you want to be.

Here is a how to (http://www.blackjungle.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2108) by Black Jungle Terrarium Supply

Gary your 77 gallon would be perfect to do a riparium (http://www.ripariumsupply.com/)of some sort. You can find large clear suction cuped planters (shampoo baskets) at the dollor store in the bathroom section for next to nothing.

Melody these projects do take some time and there is always some down time while things dry or while you collect the parts you need but the outcome is worth it. If you stick with low light plants that can be mounted on wood and don't need a substrate you will still have many options but without the headache of constantly trimming plants etc.
Plants like Anubias and Cryptocoryne (http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ecrypts/Cryptocoryne/Botanical/botanic.html) are not plants that strictly grow immersed, they spend part of the year partially above the water and this is when they flower. By keeping the plants in either suction cup planters, pots or mounted on wood everythign is removable and in a sense simplified. I know this tank is much easier to take care of than my riprarium set up with it's black sand substrate.

Noctame I am not sure about the shrimp and I guess it depends if they feel comfortable in shallow water. Many annual killifish live in flooded areas that are the equilivent of a wet ditch you might see in the spring time, just temporary pools that last unitl the heat of the summer beging to dry them out. The water in the paulidarium is only 6" deep where as most killifish habiatats are probably closer to 24" deep but the fish are perfectly comfortable. I used a terrarium made by Exo-terra and it has a screen top (covered except for a small area to keep the humidity up) and two front doors to keep everthing safe inside.
You could just as easily use a regular aquarium and a standard glass lid with a sponge filter, that would be secure enough for your shrimp. I have some cherry red shrimp in my thread fin rainbow tank and they have just that set up and seem quite happy and there have been no escapes. I did have a filter feeding bamboo/Singapore shrimp escape from my riparium which is covered by a screen top, still not sure how it got out but the dog found it the next day several meters from the tank and covered in dust. :confused:

Mike

[bae3]

This is really inspiring. I've got some cracked tanks I haven't gotten around to fixing, and one might make a great paludarium if stood on end.

Mike, if you want some epiphytic cacti, I've got several kinds that really need hacking back after several summers outdoors. Mostly Rhipsalis spp. I can also offer you some classier floaters than Lemna duckweed. I've got Spirodela polyrhiza, a much prettier duckweed with purple undersides to the leaves, and Amazon frogbit, Limnobium laevigatum. I guess we'd have to wait for spring, unless you're in Toronto some time.

Does anyone know if black locust wood is safe for aquaria? It's very rot resistant, and my neighbour has a pile of branches, some of them long-dead wood, on her lawn since the city pruned her tree.

[MDahms]

Bae3 I will have to take you up on the plant trade. I grow a few Rhipsalis species but have many other plants as well. I recently discovered why so many people dislike duckweed, what a pain in the butt that stuff is. I do have a much larger more succulent looking duckweed but it is mixed in with the Lemma minor now.

The remaining males have started to colour up quickly now. There are many places to hide in the new set up so they must feel more secure. So far there have not been any problems other than the squabbling that occurs during feeding time. I have been feeding frozen chopped bloodworms and mosquito larvae and hopefully when I start to offer a more varied mix of live food things will calm down a little. Watching the larger fish try to steal the food right out of the others mouths is a tad upsetting.:no:

Mike

[Pamelajo]

Awesome set up.

[MDahms]

Tonight I took the bit of sphagnum moss out from under the lid of the spawning conatiner to see if it enticed the fish to start spawning. Within 10 minutes a small almost colourless male and a tiny female began to spawn. The largest most colourful male guarded the container against his rival and paid no attention to the little couple. The most mature fish are still quite small but their colour is now fully developed, beautiful little fish.
These have been fantastic fish to raise and watch mature. I guess the next step is to try my hand at storing eggs once the fish have spawned for a week or so.

Mike

[CACAdmin]

That's great news! That must have been so cool to watch. Sometimes being less noticable means you get to go about your business unnoticed. Sounds like it worked perfectly for the little couple.:thumbup:

[MDahms]

I figured it was time to update the progress of my fish. The largest males are now up to 3.5cm or 1" long. These fish are anything but shy and are constantly investigating anything that comes close to their watery home.

The glass could have been cleaner but these photos came out fairly well.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2689/4228279309_b40ec39781.jpg

A toothy face.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2697/4229045682_b5f11d495e.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4063/4229045868_7baed0c89c.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2563/4229046400_a072a42801.jpg

Mike

[CACAdmin]

They sure are beauties. Sounds like they're doing really well. Great pics.

[bae3]

They're really beautiful. How are you doing with saving eggs? You must have hundreds by now!

I rewetted my Notho. foerschi eggs yesterday. The first time, a month ago, I got only three fry. I was just about to pitch the peat today, after waiting more than 24 hours, but found two new fry, which makes me wonder how long I should wait, and if I should dry the peat and rewet it again in another month. Also makes me appreciate how much the fry grew in a month. The hatchlings are so tiny, I can't see them unless they move.

I split up the Fp. amieti that hatched on Nov 12. One male outgrew the others and had started snacking on his smaller siblings, and *really* started growing on that live food. I've sorted them by size into three groups now. Here I was hoping that by incubating them in peat I could raise them all in one tank. Alas.

[Melody]

Stunning!:notworthy:

[MDahms]

These truly have been fantastic fish to keep thus far and they just keep getting more attractive with age. It has been great being able to share my experience and to learn from the people on this forum. Now I just need to see if I can keep these beautiful fish long term.

Bae3 definitely dry the peat out again and then re wet in another two or three weeks. I was able to get fry from three consecutive wettings. One of the late hatching fry that is in the paulidarium is still only about 1cm long but it has lots of hiding places and has done well so far. I picked up a little 45X jeweler's loop with LED light source for a few dollars so I can now take a close up look at the eggs. I still find it difficult to tell visibly when the eggs I get in the mail are ready to hatch but none that I have seen yet have had a clearly visible eye either. I usually go by the hatch date provided or try to look up a general species egg incubation time chart online. So far I have two collections of Notho guntheri eggs, about four weeks worth of eggs. Those eggs still have lots of time to incubate. I did not put another container of peat in the tank when I removed the old one yesterday, the mature fish are laying eggs on the bare bottom now so I will have to get another container set up soon. I had a third Notho species but the eggs arrived late in the fall when it was cold and were all fungused when I went to hatch them.

Mike

[bae3]

Well, a few hours after I posted i checked again and there were a few more fry, and a few hours after that, a few more, so now I've got eight fry from this wetting plus three from the first one, so I've got a good chance of at least one of each sex. I gave it another day, and then drained the peat. I'll try again in a few weeks.

I, too, waited too late in fall to order eggs. I wetted the Simpsonichthys zonatus a second time too, with no results either time. I can't see any eggs in there, but I couldn't see the Notho eggs either, nor the Fp eggs, of which about 50 hatched. I did manage to see the nicely eyed-up but unfortunately dead eggs of the Aph striatum I ordered. I'll dry the S.zonatus eggs again, and give them another go.

I guess a New Year's resolution for both of us should be not to order any eggs after early September!

Where did you get your jeweler's loupe? Sounds like I should get one.

[MDahms]

If you got your Simpsonichthys eggs from Aquabid they were more likely only laid days before they were shipped to you which would mean that they would not be ready to hatch for at least a couple of months. Apparently some annual species mature quite quickly but others don't and need a lengthy incubation.
I got my jeweler's loop from Ebay. I had wanted to get one of those childrens microscope sets but settled on the lighted loop and it works great. For under $300 you can get a good quality stereo microscope with camera and view images on your computer. I almost fell for that because it would be equally useful in viewing and photographing my plants but I really did not need another Christmas present from myself.

Mike

[bae3]

The Simpsonichthys eggs were marked with collection and hatch dates, about two months apart. So I wetted them at the end of November as recommended, and now at the end of December. I'll give them another go in a month -- what do I have to lose? But they may have gotten chilled (and killed) in the mail in late September.

I thought I'd get some eggs from killies of four genera to get a feel for what I might like to work with. My last experience with killies was buying a dozen eggs of Aplocheilus lineatus for a couple of bucks at an auction. They grew up into twelve big beautiful males, alas! I wouldn't mind having a go at a smaller Aplocheilus spp if I can find some.

Long ago I had a lot of so-called Aphyosemion calliurum ahli, which I believe was a popular but incorrect name for what's now known as Fundulopanchax nigerianum. They were nice fish. At the time I had a trio of pearl gouramis in a community tank that spawned about every ten days in hot weather, so I had thousands of gourami fry to feed the killi fry.

Gary's posts have gotten me interested in Rivulus. I had a pair of R.cylindraceus when I was a kid and learned the hard way how small an opening those fish can find their way out of.

[MDahms]

Rivulus is also a genus I am very interested in but one that appears to be underrepresented in the hobby from what I can see. I enjoy a challenge so I will be on the look out for Rivulus species once the weather warms up.
I seem to be more attracted to keeping small fish, fish under 2 inches. Keeping some of the larger species set up as pairs or trios would work just as well in my limited space.

We will have to trade eggs once we get our killies breeding.

Mike

[GaryofMontreal]

Rivulus are becoming very fashionable in killifish circles. There are so many newly discovered species coming in, and they are often really pretty ones. When you add their weird semi-amphibious tendencies to the mix, you have some interesting fish. They seem to have enough 'behavior' that they even appeal to some cichlid keepers.

I see no use in keeping fish to ourselves - if any of my small fish are breeding come the warmer temps, I'll put them in the auction and happily send them to anyone in Canada. I probably wouldn't sell or trade eggs - Rivs are harder to collect eggs from (for me) than Aphyosemions. They should ship well - they are very very tough to begin with and shipping will get even delicate species to buyers efficiently enough if you pack well.

I'm hoping to have a second small riv - I can't say which because it hasn't been identified yet in the next week or two. I should get it in the next few weeks.I have lots of my sp Los Banos, but they get to three solid inches. That's a beautiful fish, but it needs room.

[MDahms]

That sounds fantastic Gary. I have noticed that the Rivulus eggs that I see offered are usually in small lots and trying to get a pair when starting with less than 20 eggs would probably be a nightmare.

Mike

[GaryofMontreal]

I've kept killies since around 1992, and a big change I've noticed is the commercial, "Aquabid" mentality. A short few years ago, sending someone 12 eggs would have been shameful. Your chances of getting pairs is not great with that few eggs subjected to the random world of the mail system. I remember apologizing to friends I was sending eggs to for the cost of postage because I could only pick 20 or so from the species.
On Aquabid, it's become standard to get a dozen eggs for $15 or more. Maybe it's the real value of the (eventual) fish - as pairs, they might sell for $35. But eggs are such a roll of the dice that a dozen is dodgy - fewer than 20 is pushing it.
If you can get pairs, you are way ahead.