My little Corys are sick :-(

[mdfa.ca]

Just noticed yesterday my little Panda Corys (only about 1 1/4 Inch long) have these cottony tufts on their heads, right where the forehead would be in humans. Only 3 are affected out of 8 at the moment. They still seem to eat and behave normally for now. Is this some kind of fungus? What should I do for it?

Nothing has changed in this tank for months, so I'm kind of surprised this is cropping up now.

[CACAdmin]

Ahh, poor little cories. Sounds like fungus which can be triggered by stress. I don't know if corys tolerate salt or not. If they do could do a big water change and add a bit of aquarium salt to see if that helps.

[susankat]

Cories don't tolerate salt very well. Put them in a quarantine tank, get some fungus meds and just do half dose.

[mdfa.ca]

Thanks, guys. I'll try the meds at 1/2 strength.

[Melody]

Try to determine the issue as well - fungus always has a cause. Check your equipment, etc. I always start with a big waterchange no matter what the issue is.

Don't forget anti-fungal food as well. There's some very powerful anti-fungal foods out there and most of them also have anti-bacterial properties. Both seaweed and garlic (allicin) are the most consistently proven as efficient at both, from what I've read. The garlic in commercial food is useless, but you can try soaking a little freeze-dried protein or seaweed in garlic 'juice'.

Good luck!

[GaryofMontreal]

Tufts of fungus on the head of any softwater fish are usually secondary symptoms pointing to water quality problems. Corys need clean water, and chances are conditions slipped a bit and a bacterial infection became established. Clear the fungus and keep it cleaner for a while and they should rebound.
Check the filters, and make sure you do 25% water changes weekly.
Salt would be a deadly error.
Have their barbels become shorter? That's another important symptom with a Cory.

[mdfa.ca]

Thanks Guys! I have checked all the parameters and equipment yesterday. Everything is as it should be :err:... ??? Did a 50% water change anyways. They still behave the same, so I'm hoping it's not too serious. Last night I fed them some blood worms "steeped" in fresh garlic juice, but they weren't too impressed. I either used too much garlic or they picked up my vibes as a lot of fresh garlic makes me gag.:eek:

Gary, I have not looked at their barbels so I will check tonight.

[Melody]

I have a Molly who is a fungus magnet. It's not the fluffy kind, more like flat white spots, especially on her fins but quite often she's covered. None of the other fish get it. I have the homemade food with many of the anti-fungals in it so I feed her that. It's almost entirely gone the next day. A week later, she gets it again, same routine and gone the next day after the feeding. This happens time and time again, never fails. I have to find time to start experimenting so I can figure out what is having that much effect, or if it's a certain combo. It would be wonderful if it could be isolated so people could feed whatever it is when there's a fungus issue. I haven't tried it specifically for any other fungus so it may just be this one strain, but it's something. We need all of the natural ammunition we can get.

It does seem strange that they're all getting it, something is definitly up. No new fish lately?

[GaryofMontreal]

"Neuromast pitting", a problem in which there is a bacterial infection on the head of a fish is something I have never seen on a hardwater livebearer, but which is the bane of South American cichlid keeping. What's described looks that way, although i have never seen it on a Cory.
It's not communicable - every fish in the tank has the bacteria that cause it already, and it may never manifest itself. It needs the right conditions to flourish. Sometimes, it is dirty water, and it often seems to affect soft water fish kept in hard water. Pandas are a softwater Cory.
As the infection opens the hole in the forehead of the fish, opportunistic fungus can appear as a secondary symptom.
I've had it on overcrowded discus (if I had known then what...) and on Geophagus. I've controlled it with rigid regimes of water changing - 25% a week minimum, never missed. If I missed a week, it was back in days. It will always be there, but can be reduced to a chronic threat rather than a killer disease. Unchecked, it will cause the death of the fish.
Fungus can be the fishkeeper's friend, as very often it's an easily-treated warning of more serious problems.

[Melody]

It's definitly a good flag, that's for sure. Since the parameters are fine in this case, it makes it more difficult to nail.

I've never had an issue with Cory's with my hardened Livebearer tanks. I'm sure some species are more adaptable than others, like any group. We also have to remember that many of these fish aren't from the wild, they're raised in cement vats in Florida, full of hard water. If I tried wild-caught Cory's, I'm sure I'd have to at the very least acclimate them over time.

There can be so many exceptions in this hobby, it's maddening. :twitcy:

[GaryofMontreal]

It is maddening. When I've had it break out (as much as a slow motion malady like this breaks out...) I've been confident my set up was good. I've had it in set-ups as good as I can provide. However, I can report it responds well to accelerated water changes.
The trigger that makes the bacteria dangerous is not always clear, but the treatment to reduce it to a chronic problem is.

[mdfa.ca]

I hope I'm not just seeing things I want to, but they seemed better yesterday than the day before. Out of three that seemed affected, one seems totally clean (no spots), the second hardly has any left and the third is still "spotted", but they seem less... Maybe that garlic did some good after all Melody:wink:. All the worms were gone the next morning, so they had to go into someone's stomach, since they were frozen...

And to answer your question, Gary - no, their barbells don't seem to be affected and they are the same length as all the other corys. Whewww!

Just to be safe, I did another small change of water last night and put an almond leaf in. Will concoct some worms with garlic and anti bacterial food tonight and we'll see what happens.

Still not sure what set it off. The only thing I can think of is that maybe they are getting a bit crowded? I think I will move the two girl bettas that are housed with them to their own little tank. Bettas can get a bit "strong" sometimes.

Will keep you guys updated.

[CACAdmin]

Glad to hear they seem to be getting better. As for the garlic, you may have soaked the bloodworms in a bit too much of it and so they may have ignored it until some of the garlic dissipated into the water column. Fish love garlic but if there's too much it can be an irritant and they'll pass on it.

[Melody]

That's great Margaret, glad to hear it!

[GaryofMontreal]

Good. There's no fish:frown: sadder than a sick cory.

[mdfa.ca]

Good. There's no fish:frown: sadder than a sick cory.
Eye, gotta agree with that Gary. Well, there was no real change despite small changes of water and "garlic" feedings over the weekend. I think I will go to the medicated food next. Should I go antibacterial or antifungal?

[Melody]

Good question. Fungus alone isn't normally contagious so since more than one have it, I'd go with antibacterial. I've yet to find a medicated food that my fish will eat, however. I've never tried it on Cory's though. There are binders out there that will bind med's to food and they're an antibacterial themselves. Something like that on frozen food might work better.

I usually treat stubborn fungus with a dose of Rid Ich Plus, but that's isolated cases as opposed to something that looks like it's contagious.

If they're acting normally otherwise, it might be worth waiting and keeping up the waterchanges, rather than throw med's at an unknown.

[GaryofMontreal]

It sounds like a standard illness in softwater fishes. The standard treatment isn't pet shop antibiotics, which should be banned, but water changes and more water changes. Treating the fish may be an error. The problem is probably the system they're in being out of whack, and only clean water will do it.
If the spots aren't white, but are pits in the head of the animal, then they are either scar tissue (good) or open wounds (bad) that you have to push to become scar tissue.
The problem with most antibacterials is we don't know what bacteria are at work, so we can't target the meds properly. Going after the disease with weak (often past due) aquarium antibiotics simply helps super-bugs develop antibiotic resistance. Since antibiotics were banned for pet shop sales in Quebec, we have seen no increase in fish losses. I lose fewer, since I don't use inappropriate meds because they look like they might be right anymore. We want to do right and save our fishes, but we often make things worse by accident.

[bae3]

If it's neuromast pitting, or 'hole in the head disease', as Gary suggests, it's usually associated in cichlids with an organism called Hexamita, which IIRC, is a protozoan. Like Gary says, it's usually set off by stress and/or water quality problems, since the organism is pretty much ubiquitous in aquaria.

Gary, since these corys are not full grown yet, do you think mdfa.ca should try a drug specific for Hexamita to knock back the infection while she improves water quality? I'm thinking that these little guys may not have the reserves to fight it off completely on their own.

[Melody]

Maybe I'm missing it, I tend to skim...lol...but I don't see Margaret noting any symptoms of Hexamita, just fungus with an unknown cause. I've also never seen anything like it in all of the Cory's I've owned. They're usually tough as nails, or the ones I've been blessed with have been anyway.

There are other bacterial and parasitic diseases that mimic (or encourage) fungus as well. Even internal parasites can weaken the fish and leave them open to opportunistic organisms. In my opinion, we need more symptoms before we throw drugs at it. Most drugs are stressful for fish, they're just the lesser of two evils when we know we need to treat something. If the fish are fighting something, we don't want to give them something else to contend with.

I agree that lots of waterchanges can't hurt. :yes: I'd also reduce stress as much as possible - lights out, etc.

Just my point of view of course. It's a tough call when the cause is unknown. When I'm in that situation, I like to have lots of angles and input so I can put it all together and come up with a plan of action.

Can you isolate the Cory's that are showing symptoms?

[mdfa.ca]

Well, the water changes don't seem to be making any difference. If anything, I think they are slowly getting worse. I've broken down and treated them with Seachem Polyguard on Tuesday. Half strength as I'm not sure if the Kuhlis could take it. Didn't see any changes last night but I also didn't see anyone stressed, so maybe will dose at full tomorrow.

I may have identified the culprit though. I've been feeding them some white worms and my culture was a bit old. The soil compacted and the food got trapped. I opened it yesterday and it was, shall we say, a bit fragrant... Let me be a bit more specific: it smells like poo:eek:.

I threw them out and started a new one from another batch I had. This is the only thing I can think of that could have brought in bacteria unless it was something that was already in the water and just attacked them when they were stressed. The Betta girls have been removed and Kuhlis don't bother them... Poor little guys look so mournfull. I hate having sick pets and not knowing exactly what is bothering them!

[Melody]

You have to make the call that you feel is right - you know them best.:yes: I sure hope it does the trick for them!

[mdfa.ca]

I believe I discovered what caused the whole thing last night. Lost one cory and wanted to do a big water change before deciding if I wanted to treat them again. I reached in to pull out a couple of pieces of driftwood and winced - the water was FRIGID!

Enter the classic lightbulb moment - last time I did a large water change was right before the troubles started and I turn the heater off only when I do large water changes so the heater doesn't crack. I checked back in my records - yep, it was right before I noticed the first spots. I forgot to plug it back in.

:FishOnDaHead::mad::SomebodyShootMe:

I am so mad at myself. The poor little guys have been sitting in cold water and it does get pretty cold in that room. No wonder they are stressed and sick. I turned it right back on and they are toasty and warm again.

Do you guys think I should treat them again or just wait and see if the upped temps get rid of the problem?

Man, I feel like such a dufus...

[CACAdmin]

Don't beat yourself up. These things happen. Nobody's perfect.

[mdfa.ca]

I know Jay, but it's hard not to when you know you could have prevented the whole thing just by paying more attention. They were all hanging around the heater last night...

[Melody]

Cory's are quite cold tolerant so I'm sure it didn't do that much harm. It may have left their immune system lowered but they should recover quickly if that's all that was up. At least you now have a source of the issue and can get on with it from there.:Smile:

[CACAdmin]

They were all hanging around the heater last night...
Just like humans gathering around the fireplace when they come in from the cold.

[Pamelajo]

So glad you figured it out. We have all done similar things or worse.

[CACAdmin]

So glad you figured it out. We have all done similar things or worse.
:yes:

[CACAdmin]

How are the corys doing?

[mdfa.ca]

Jay, thank you for asking. Didn't do too well, though. Lost six of my seven panda corys. 4 died on their own and I had to euthanize 2 of them as they were so bad the flesh was literally peeling off their bodies. It made me sick to see them suffer like that. Poor little souls.... Amazingly enough the three cory metaes and four kuhli loaches were never affected (yes, I'm crossing my fingers toes and fins as I type this!) and the last remaining panda looks ok, if a bit lonely...

I don't know what is going on in that tank and it's driving me crazy. Did another water change yesterday and the water just didn't smell right. It wasn't that woodsy "deep pool in the middle of the forest" type smell. Do you guys know what I mean? This morning the water is cloudy. I took the piece of driftwood out last night and dipped it in 1/19 solution of bleach. It's now sitting in dechlor bath. That wood had something slimy and smelly growing on it. Hopefully the bleach will take care of that and won't kill the Anubias that was growing on it.

I'm sitting on the fence whether to treat the tank again or not. The remining fish seem ok, so I'm kind of leaning on the side of let it be and just continue with frequent small water changes until it equalizes again. What do you guys think?

[CACAdmin]

Sorry you lost almost all of the litlle panda corys. Once things are back to normal you can maybe get the remaining little one a few friends.

Not sure what you mean by a woodsy smell. Maybe an imbalance of some kind? :Dunno: Not sure what to advise, Margaret. I think just follow your instincts on this and monitor the fish.

As for the anubias, I've done bleach dips with them and as long as there isn't a fresh break on a stem or rhyzome, they do just fine. (a fresh break allow for the bleach to be absorbed... not good for the plant. :no: )

Best of luck.

[ksimdjembe]

Bummer. I know what you mean though, when you say the 'deep woodsey smell' of a well cycled well established tank. the earthy smell is good. could you have killed off too much bacteria with the fiddling with meds? could you get some filter media (juice of filter) from a good established tank? best of luck getting things back to normal.

[mdfa.ca]

ksimdjembe,

It's hard to tell whether I did that with the meds (very possible) or whether that's what started the whole thing. That log just never looked right. It is now very clean, smelling just right ::D: , and sitting back in the tank. I scrubbed it very carefully yesterday with a hard brush and you wouldn't believe how much gunk came off it. I did add some stuff from another good filter so hopefully things will get back to normal soon.

OK, so am I the strange one or do other people smell their tank water and notice right away when things don't smell right :twitcy: ???

[ksimdjembe]

no way - not crazy, after enough time, its a great somple indicator. if it is rather non smelling, or earthy, you're good... if it is mediciny, or acrid.... something needs to be looked at. This however works best for planted tanks, lost of mulm to give that nice earthy smell. brocken in ttanks with fish only will get this, but if you clean the filter alot, the smell won't get too strong and sometimes is not as detectable. just my $0.02

[bae3]

Yes! I smell my tanks too to tell if they are okay. I describe it as a 'green' or 'live' smell, like healthy lake water, but 'earthy' is good too. What I'm really checking for is a putrid odor, that tells me something has died in there somewhere, and I need to try to find it. Fortunately, this is rare, but it's something you want to detect ASAP when it happens.