clown loaches and white spots

[neon]

My two clowns are covered in white spots which are parasites.

They are constantly swimming to the top to get oxygen as the parasites have clogged their gills.

I am using Mardel which is for parasites of all kinds, I have raised the water temp to 30 as that also helps kill them.

Today is the second day of 3 treatments and they look no better, the package said they often get worse before the parasites die.

I have heard of using aquarium salt as well.

2-3 tablespoons per 5/gallon, dissolved in fish water and added gradually over 24-48 hours.

Has anyone had success with Mardel or using aquarium salt as I have to buy another bottle of Mardel for their final treatment on Friday.

[CACAdmin]

I'd say they have Ich (often referred to white spot disease). I don't know about Mardel general parasite meds, but I use Rid Ich+ for treatment of Ich. However, as clown loaches are sensitive to meds, I think it's recommended to only use half a dose.

No matter what Ich meds you use, it requires the treatment for at least a full ten days due to the lifecycle of Ich. It can only be killed during the freeswimming stage. Ich cysts live on your fish for 4 days, drop off to the substrate and multiply for 1 day, hatch and are free swimming for 2 days. Here's are great article explaining the Lifecycle of Ich: http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=27

Other threads here on the forum with information or discussion on Ich can be found here: Treatment of Ich (http://www.canadianaquariumconnection.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1665).

Increased tank temps will mean reduced oxygen levels so the combination of the ich in their gills and lower oxygen levels may be why they keep coming to the surface.

Best of luck!

[jewels]

These are scaleless Fish!
I know very little about loaches and even less about ich. Luckily for both us,
I happened to win a copy of TROPICAL FISH INTERNATIONAL in the treasure hunt contest.!!
David A. Lass in his article recommends ( on advice of Brian Aukes of National Fish Pharmaceuticals ) a product called Quinine.

Thats about all I know. Just wanted to contribute.

[neon]

I'd say they have Ich (often referred to white spot disease). I don't know about Mardel general parasite meds, but I use Rid Ich+ for treatment of Ich. However, as clown loaches are sensitive to meds, I think it's recommended to only use half a dose.

No matter what Ich meds you use, it requires the treatment for at least a full ten days due to the lifecycle of Ich. It can only be killed during the freeswimming stage. Ich cysts live on your fish for 4 days, drop off to the substrate and multiply for 1 day, hatch and are free swimming for 2 days. Here's are great article explaining the Lifecycle of Ich: http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=27

Other threads here on the forum with information or discussion on Ich can be found here: Treatment of Ich (http://www.canadianaquariumconnection.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1665).

Increased tank temps will mean reduced oxygen levels so the combination of the ich in their gills and lower oxygen levels may be why they keep coming to the surface.

Best of luck!

I lowered the temp back down....as it said to in the article.

just confusing as everyone has different ideas.

this one says to keep doing changes everyday?

[CACAdmin]

Yes continue doing waterchanges (it helps with the reduction of the swimmers. Also make sure you're not using carbon in your filter as it will remove the meds from the tank. It can be added back once the treatment is over to remove remenants of meds.

And yes, as Jewels said, they are scaleless fish... thus the need to use only 1/2 dosage of meds.

[neon]

Yes continue doing waterchanges (it helps with the reduction of the swimmers. Also make sure you're not using carbon in your filter as it will remove the meds from the tank. It can be added back once the treatment is over to remove remenants of meds.

And yes, as Jewels said, they are scaleless fish... thus the need to use only 1/2 dosage of meds.

I'm not doing water changes, I have also lowered the temp back to normal as it states on the bottle there is no need for these two.

After the third and final treatment Friday, I will be doing a change this Sunday.

-carbon is gone and it will be replaced 3 days after the spots have gone.

- 1/2 the dosage?

oops!

I've been using full, tomorrow I will do have.

[neon]

These are scaleless Fish!
I know very little about loaches and even less about ich. Luckily for both us,
I happened to win a copy of TROPICAL FISH INTERNATIONAL in the treasure hunt contest.!!
David A. Lass in his article recommends ( on advice of Brian Aukes of National Fish Pharmaceuticals ) a product called Quinine.

Thats about all I know. Just wanted to contribute.


woah, I had no idea Jewels as of course it doesn't state that on the bottle.

so tomorrow, my final treatment........I will only use 1/2 the dosage.

gosh..I sure hope I haven't burnt them.:frown:

[neon]

third treatment was today.

one is at the bottom dying, the other one keeps close to him.

they have become inseparability since the parasites.

they always swam together to the top of the tank to find oxygen, then they would try and pick off the parasites from each other.

not sure how much longer I can go and leave him suffering.....

but I just keep hoping..........

and its killing me.....these were my favorite two.::(:

and they both still have the parasites.......not as bad......but they should have been gone by now.

[CACAdmin]

Sorry to hear your favorites are doing the poorest. Remember though that you need to keep treating for at least an additional 3 days after the spots are gone otherwise they will simply be reinfected with Ich.

[neon]

Sorry to hear your favorites are doing the poorest. Remember though that you need to keep treating for at least an additional 3 days after the spots are gone otherwise they will simply be reinfected with Ich.


They are doing much better Jay and I did a 50% change today as advised on the bottle.

Now they still have some spots.

but it says.....its a three day treatment.

should I put more in today?

I haven't since Thursday.

[CACAdmin]

You'll need keep treating for a full 3 days after the last spots are gone. If not, you'll find yourself like I did when I started out (and didn't understand the Ich lifecycle) where everytime I figured I was done with treatment and the Ich was gone, it returned. Treatment until the last of the swarmers (which you can't see) are gone is the only way to get rid of Ich.

[neon]

You'll need keep treating for a full 3 days after the last spots are gone. If not, you'll find yourself like I did when I started out (and didn't understand the Ich lifecycle) where everytime I figured I was done with treatment and the Ich was gone, it returned. Treatment until the last of the swarmers (which you can't see) are gone is the only way to get rid of Ich.


Okay Jay, I will do another treatment of 1, 3 and 5th day.

thanks!

[neon]

they are both covered again..the one never did recover and looks like he is dying.

I have done 3 treatments and its done no good.

should I try cure-all and is it okay to put it in the tank with the other med there?

[mdfa.ca]

If the treatment did not work, it is possible that the strain your fish got is resistant to it. Maybe try another one? The best I ever used was Rid Ich. It worked really fast and didn't have to repeat the treatment.

[neon]

If the treatment did not work, it is possible that the strain your fish got is resistant to it. Maybe try another one? The best I ever used was Rid Ich. It worked really fast and didn't have to repeat the treatment.


I'm still not sure its called ick, is white spots covering their entire body.

I have heard cure-all is also good, do I need to drain my tank to get rid of the other one?

[CACAdmin]

You can review symptoms in our Guides to Fish Illness (http://www.canadianaquariumconnection.com/forum/showthread.php?t=310). Mixing meds I'm guessing is probably not recommended, so if it were me, I'd do a 50% water change and run charcoal in the filter for a day or two, do another 50% water change and begin treatment.

Here's some info on Rid Ich+ (http://www.novalek.com/kordon/ridich/index.htm) which they say, "Fishes such as the so-called "scale-less" species (loaches, catfish, etc.) tolerate Rid·Ich+ very well, but be sure to follow cautions noted". It also notes "Treatment should be repeated no less than every 24 hours (see step c) and continued for at least 3 days beyond the disappearance of all signs of disease." doing partial water changes with each treatment.

Hang in there. Most of us have battled with this, and know how tedious and time consuming doing treatments and water changes, but your fish will thank you for it.

[neon]

You can review symptoms in our Guides to Fish Illness (http://www.canadianaquariumconnection.com/forum/showthread.php?t=310). Mixing meds I'm guessing is probably not recommended, so if it were me, I'd do a 50% water change and run charcoal in the filter for a day or two, do another 50% water change and begin treatment.

Here's some info on Rid Ich+ (http://www.novalek.com/kordon/ridich/index.htm) which they say, "Fishes such as the so-called "scale-less" species (loaches, catfish, etc.) tolerate Rid·Ich+ very well, but be sure to follow cautions noted". It also notes "Treatment should be repeated no less than every 24 hours (see step c) and continued for at least 3 days beyond the disappearance of all signs of disease." doing partial water changes with each treatment.

Hang in there. Most of us have battled with this, and know how tedious and time consuming doing treatments and water changes, but your fish will thank you for it.

I did at 70% change, then added in super ick cure by API, as they were out of stock on rid ick, and halved the dose advised for scaleless fish.

I also raised the temp to 30 as directed.

I will then add the meds again 48 hours later and then after another 48 hours I do a 25% water change.

The owner of the pet store did say with clown fish, they seldom survive ick.

The time spent does not bother me, what does is when products say they work, and they don't, and its been a lot of money out of my pocket for these meds.

It has cost me so far 40.00, for me, that is a lot of money.

thanks Jay for helping me again.....as this is really frustrating.

[CACAdmin]

Meds are expensive and it's even more discouraging when you find yourself spending money you can ill afford and it doesn't cure the problem. I'll be keeping my fingers (& toes) crossed for you that you meet with success this time.

[neon]

Meds are expensive and it's even more discouraging when you find yourself spending money you can ill afford and it doesn't cure the problem. I'll be keeping my fingers (& toes) crossed for you that you meet with success this time.


thanks Jay as I am running out of ideas.

second treatment today......and he still is covered.

grrrrrrrrrrr!

so darn frustrating!:realmad:

[CACAdmin]

Remember the longest period of the Ich cycle is when the spots are on the fish (normally 4 days). Then they drop off, multiply for a day and then become free swimming (which is when the med nuke them). Of course, once it gets going there are Ich at every stage, and so even if the fish are still covered in spots, it's been killing the ones in the free-swimming stage before they reinfect the fish.

Hang in there.

[neon]

Remember the longest period of the Ich cycle is when the spots are on the fish (normally 4 days). Then they drop off, multiply for a day and then become free swimming (which is when the med nuke them). Of course, once it gets going there are Ich at every stage, and so even if the fish are still covered in spots, it's been killing the ones in the free-swimming stage before they reinfect the fish.

Hang in there.

this fish had tons, then it became almost none.....then he got more back.

he had the second treatment yesterday...still looking the same, I`m to do a 25% change tomorrow.......should I just continue every second day with the treatment as the bottle assumed it would have been gone by tomorrow.

so much confusion.:err:

[CACAdmin]

Keep treating until 3 days after the last spots are gone.

[neon]

Keep treating until 3 days after the last spots are gone.


oh that's great then Jay, no water change tomorrow!

thank you soooooo much for all your help!

[Laura]

For background, here's some additional reading.
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=16721
Best of luck with them.

[neon]

For background, here's some additional reading.
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=16721
Best of luck with them.


Hi Laura:

I've done all of this and its now my fourth time for treatment.

everywhere I read says it just takes one..not in my case, as said its been four and that's a lot of ick treatment meds.

I have one more left of this treatment and I will call it quits as I have already spent 40.00 of four treatments and nothing has done any good.

[zaxxon]

I'm really sorry to hear you are having such a hard time with ich. For the record, I've used mardel and it did work with my clown loaches. I had to go through two cycles of treatment though. Perhaps you are having such a hard time because their infection is so severe. Mine only had about 1-6 spots on each of them.

[neon]

I'm really sorry to hear you are having such a hard time with ich. For the record, I've used mardel and it did work with my clown loaches. I had to go through two cycles of treatment though. Perhaps you are having such a hard time because their infection is so severe. Mine only had about 1-6 spots on each of them.

It was bad, their entire bodies were covered, it was so bad they could no longer breath, they constantly swam up to the top for oxygen and I have a 6 spouted bubbly stone.

The one that is left hasn't as many as it had before, but isn't all of these meds toxins?

Should I buy another one and try again?

I'm so happy to hear it worked for you, I didn't catch it fast enough I guess.

to me, is called white spot......not ick....but my research says they're the same which doesn't make sense to me.

water level is still at 30 and no carbon in the filter....its been a month and I am now worried about my other fish.

any suggestions?

[zaxxon]

Not sure what else to suggest. I'm not really an expert at this stuff. Most of what I know is from what was said on this site and the instructions on the bottle. Sometimes if they are too far gone there is nothing that can be done.:frown:

[neon]

Not sure what else to suggest. I'm not really an expert at this stuff. Most of what I know is from what was said on this site and the instructions on the bottle. Sometimes if they are too far gone there is nothing that can be done.:frown:


thing is he just won't get better, but he is doing fine.

50% change coming up and that's it.