Bolivian Ram

[jackie3]

Bolivian Ram or Butterfly Ram have any of you had these? The pet store said I cant take any home yet for a few days cuz they just arrived- so I wanted to find more info about them, the guy said there wont be to much info out there about these guys, but he said their very calm and protect eggs like a mouth brooder and will be great with gentle fish :)

thanks

[Melody]

I'll let someone more familiar with them answer your question, but I wanted to commend the store for not selling them right away. :thumbup: Feel free to mention the store name if you wish.

I think you'll get lots of information as people wander in, I hear a lot about the species and they've been around for quite some time. :yes:

[jackie3]

The store is Courtenay Pet Centre Ltd in Courtenay, BC ... seems like a great store- definitely have the best prices around thats for sure

[Very Scalare]

There is plenty of info available for these fish.

Mikrogeophagus altispinosus (or altispinosa)

Much like the German blue ram except that they are a much hardier species. They aren't as delicate as the (some would say prettier) blue ram. As close to a community fish as you will find in a cichlid. Well worth having in my books!

If you can forgive the dirty glass and the "someone's hands have just been in the darn tank" look, here are a couple of pictures.

[GaryofMontreal]

I'll go with very scalare - they get a little bigger than the Llanos ram, and are happier in harder water than ramirezi.
There are two colour forms in stores around here - the really fine one Very Scalare posted, and a browner one. Both are really nice fish.
I'd say it's the easiest to keep of all the Geophagus type cichlids. You have to do your weekly water changes, and it is territorial. But it's not savage about it like some cichlids - it just wants enough room and some clean water. It's a wonderful fish.
And it sounds like you have a decent shop trying to sell it.

[jackie3]

thanks for posting those pics Very Scalare- you've helped me look for additional info online... they look so darn cute :)

Gary- you say territorial... is that just when breeding? or all times with their space?

[GaryofMontreal]

Adult cichlids are always territorial, although that increases with breeding. Bolivian rams tend to scrap between sexes to establish the dominance order, but only get serious when spawning's in the works. They do a lot of short runs at intruders, but they don't run fish down like convicts do, in order to kill them. They are happy chasing them off and returning to guard.
They are also not too brutal with other species, as long as their space is respected. They are actually fairly easily overwhelmed by rougher cichlids, and often end up on the receiving end in overcrowded or poorly stocked tanks.
Still, as with any cichlid, when one ends up in the top corner for more than a couple of hours, it is doomed if not removed. Usually, a "third wheel" isn't tolerated for long once a pair forms.

[bae3]

Partly inspired by this thread, I picked up two young Bolivian rams at the DRAS auction yesterday. They were terrified and pale and colorless, but this morning they have the beautiful red fins in Very Scalare's photos. I think they are a pair, but I'll wait until they are more settled in and maybe a bit older to decide.

I hadn't thought about Bolivian rams for a while, and had forgotten about that cute gawky Geophagus head and snout on the little guys. Nice fish indeed.

Btw, these fish are also known as Papiliochromis altispinosa. I'm not sure which name has been settled on, but it's worth trying both if you are searching for info.

[CACAdmin]

Congrats on the new additions, bae3. Hope to see pictures once they've settled in a bit.

[bae3]

Congrats on the new additions, bae3. Hope to see pictures once they've settled in a bit.

Just smear a lot of grease on your glasses and look at Very Scalare's photos. That's what fish photos look like when I take them with my cheap camera. It seems to have a focal length of about a meter, so fish aren't all that identifiable unless they are 6" long.

[fishclubgirl]

This is some good information. I might have to try some out when I get space in my tanks. I love German blues but they don't mix with Calgary water. Gave up on them a couple of years ago.

[bae3]

I've got Linke & Staeck's book American Cichlids I: Dwarf Cichlids. They collected Bolivian rams from a murky still pool in full sun, with pH 7.6, total and carbonate hardness of 4, conductivity of 123 microsiemens, temp 27C.

They took them home to Germany and raised them to adults, which took over a year. They spawned and raised fry successfully in the local tap water -- pH 7.5, total hardness 14 and carbonate hardness 13. So there's hope for you Calgarians. ;-)

[GaryofMontreal]

The water requirements for Bolivians are completely different from ramirezi. It's interesting though - I've kept wild caught ramirezi and while they are not as colourful and the german or domestic rams, they are much more robust and active. The domestic ones are more delicate and thinner bodied. Meanwhile, altispinosa are little tanks.
One weird thing already mentioned - you can find info on this Genus under:
Papiliochromis;
Microgeophagus;
Mikrogeophagus.

It's the only group I know of with that odd a name game.

[Lednail]

I have have some and they are nice fish. get a pare of them and they will do well in a planted tank.