Angel 'hatchery'

[Dan_G_Calgary]

5 gallon tank, sponge filter, leaf with angel eggs on it. Piece of slate to hold the leaf down (kept floating to the top) heater, and 1 drop/gallon of methylene blue.

Secret to having a shot at hatching angel eggs artificially (at least for me) is that.
The only ways I have ever raised angels is
A: let the parents do it.
B: in a small tank with 1 drop/gallon of methylene blue.

I know there is better stuff available now that doesn't stain your silicone, but I am old school.

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/Grimblyd/Fish%20Rack%202010/Picture952.jpg

close up of the leaf. the milky white eggs are dead.

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/Grimblyd/Fish%20Rack%202010/Picture951.jpg

[CACAdmin]

Thanks for posting the pics. This is going to be fun to watch. Keep us updated as they hatch. We'll be anxious to see the progress.

[susankat]

I just use shrimp to keep the eggs clear of fungus, I don't like the staining meth blue does. I have hatched several cories and bns that way.

[Dan_G_Calgary]

I just use shrimp to keep the eggs clear of fungus, I don't like the staining meth blue does. I have hatched several cories and bns that way.


you kids and your new fangled ways!

Seems everyone has shrimp now. Back when I kept fish and had to walk to the fish store, through a snow storm, uphill there and back, and fight bears! And not any of these namby pamby black bears. oh no. they were kodiaks and polar bears, every one!

All kidding aside, that sounds really cool. I would never have thought of that. I would have assumed that the shrimp would eat the good eggs too!

I might have to get some of these shrimps....

[vince0]

i recognize that leaf from somewhere hahaha

looks like it survived the trip alright!

is it the amano shrimps you use for that? or a red cherry type shrimp?

[amaruq]

keep us updated love to see the babies!

[fishclubgirl]

Yes, us kids!! I don't use methylene blue but use antifungals like Maroxy instead. I like to keep an airstone aimed at the eggs too. Not sure if this helps but it doesn't seem to hurt. Also the temp should be around 80(about 26 celsius for us "kids"). Never have tried the shrimp thing but have heard of people shipping catfish eggs with shrimp. Interesting theory and would love to hear more!!

[susankat]

Kids huh, 30 years of fishkeeping hahaha,

I just toss in some cherry shrimp. They don't eat the eggs but keep fungus from them. Last batch of cory eggs I tossed the leaf into the shrimp tank then had fun catching all the fry when they got big enough to move. Easier to catch the shrimp to me.

[vince0]

have they hatched yet!!?? they should either have hatched by now, or are in the process of hatching! let me know, and post pictures!!

thanks,

vince

[Dan_G_Calgary]

nope, not yet. I am home sick today too, so watching them closely. I sucked out a bunch of the dead crap in the tank into a margarine container, but before I dumped it, I checked it. there were probably 40 live eggs that had seperated off the leaf from me spraying water on it! (that is what the turkey baster in front of the tank is for. hehe. I don't do it often but I like to simulate a bit of what the parents would be doing)

Will likely have wrigglers tonight. I am on my way out to the doctor and I think I wil pick up a higher magnification of reading glasses too. I can't see the eyes in the eggs, and I should be able to by now, so my eyes are maybe needing a bit more help. :)

Dan

[vince0]

lol, you don't realize somethings broken (ie. your eyes) till you realize stuff just doesn't look the same... classic

for all you know there could be wigglers and you wound't know the difference? lol

[Dan_G_Calgary]

So I picked up some higher magnification glasses, and was able to see their little eyes peaking back at me.
I anticipated them hatching last night. Last time I checked on them was about midnight when I turned off the lights.

6 a.m. this morning went down to check on an expected hatch and the whole tank was full of white eggs. Not 100% certain what went wrong, but I suspect it was the hard water I was trying to hatch them in. I am not certain how that works, but I suspect as they were tyring to hatch, they couldn't maybe and died. I should have set them up in some soft water, but unfortunately we are just about out of drinking water, so I couldn't pilfer any. Once I get over this man flu cold from **** I think I will finish my research on RO systems. I chatted with a local angel breeder and he predicted the fail due to hard water. Should have listened to him.

In any case, I might have a bigger problem on my hands, that I will post a thread on in general. I have an insane white fungus bloom in my other tanks.

Ah well.

[CACAdmin]

Sorry to hear they didn't hatch. Better luck next time around.

[fishclubgirl]

Dan,
My question would be the age of your methylene blue?? It may have lost it's effectiveness over time. I only use calgary tap water and have 2 spawns(of marble crosses, sorry) right now. My bettas like a mix of RO and regular water but my angels just get regular water as they're in community tanks. IMHO, Maroxy or Mardel is quite effective.

[vince0]

hmmm, i haven't had any problems with them hatchin in my tank either, and i dont soften the water...

i can give you another batch of eggs in a couple weeks when they spawn again, they are very prollific

[Dan_G_Calgary]

The methylene blue is about 3 days old... I bought a new bottle from MOPS.ca when I got the rest of my stuff from them.

There was no fungus growth in the egg tank, so the methylene blue definetely did it's job, but they just all.. died.

It may not have been the hard water, but then again some angel lines are more sensitive to water conditions than others. Marbles IIRC will spawn in a toilet while it is being flushed... JUST KIDDING! My wife has swayed my prejudice! haha!

Vince: You don't soften your water, but with the amount of plants and driftwood you run in that tank, I would guess it is very very soft and a naturally conducive environment to eggs and fry. I think you run some very nice bio systems. Once I get all my meters fixed and testing equipment we'll check the softness of your water. I am guessing it is very nice, and spikes up with water changes, but settles down quickly...

Then again, I could be full of bs and completley wrong.. haha!

Maybe the amnonia/nitrates spiked on me. I was going to do a water change once they were wrigglers, but maybe I should have done one sooner. We shall see.

Thanks all for your input.

Dan

[vince0]

i could always give you some of my "awesome" water haha, i do have 50gallons of it lol, that way you can do water changes every few days from the parents tank

[fishclubgirl]

I had to go away last weekend and left the bf to feed my little guys. They're in a small tank so quite prone to nitrate spikes. I threw in some hornwort before I left and they seem to be doing great(for marble angels that is). I'm moving the second spawn tonight from the same pair so I'll have marble koi angels galore:wink: :wink: . It's their second spawn in 12 days!!!

[Dan_G_Calgary]

Yah. Gonna just have to credit it to my 'rookie' status. I tested for nitrates and the tank is fine. I also did the 'smell' test. I have found in the past when a tanks water is off, I can usuually smell it. Just doesn't smell right. Mind you, I have this fricking head cold, so my sniffer might not be up to scratch...

They were developing nicely. They came from very healthy parents, the water was fine, but much harder than the water they were spawned in( almost certain of this Vince. It will be interesting when we can test your water to find out the truth of that). Temperature was in a nice range, good oxidation in the water. But when they should have hatched, they instead died.

Oddly, there are still some late developing eggs in the tank. about 20 or so eggs that haven't gone white, but haven't hatched. It's interesting. Not sure what I did wrong, but something is off.

[mdfa.ca]

Sorry to hear the eggs turned white. There are so many things that can go wrong. Maybe these last ones will surprise you and hatch! Keeping my fingers crossed.

[vince0]

omg that is wierd... i swore they should have all hatched by now... maybe moving them stunted the development?

[fishclubgirl]

Sometimes Mother Nature has a mind of it's own so don't blame yourself. You'll have lots of angelfry soon enough!!

[Dan_G_Calgary]

It was all over by this afternoon, the rest turned... Very odd.

[vince0]

im sorry to hear that dan,

if its any consolation, ill have another batch of eggs for ya probably next week?

[mdfa.ca]

That's too bad... But don't give up! "Never give up and never surrender!" (Galaxy Quest). It will work next time. I've had fish spawn without me even trying but have been (fruitlessly) trying to spawn 4 couples of Bettas... Almost a year later, still not even 1 egg. :mad:

[Dan_G_Calgary]

not any where near giving up. As I posted elsewhere, I have several spawns of sturisoma aerum starve to death before could figure out what they would eat. Of course these days, you just google that up, and have an instant answer, but giving up is not part of my equation.

I'd like to discuss a theory with you before we do Vince. An angel breeder in town reminded me of something (unrelated probably to the eggs dieing, but something we might consider). He had a bad spawn of stunted angels, and said that he let them spawn too often, so it weakened the eggs. Do you hold to that theory? and if so, do you want to consider 'resting' them for a couple weeks or so (you'd have to seperate them, and you might not want to do that) to let the spawning 'strengthen?'

your thoughts on that?

Edit: not to be pompous or anything, or bragadocial, but I have spawned over 40 different species (not really a big amount for a lot of folks, just saying), some of which had at that time been spawned less than 5 recorded times in captivity. I didn't manage that by giving up the first time something went wrong! haha! My posting on the failure is to elicit discussion for possible reasons, and to record it. Something that I did or didn't do caused this hatch to fail. All I am interested in is finding what that is. First time I spawned angels artificially I went through this same process, but unfortunately (they say the memory goes before the eyes!!!) can't remember what the missing step is. I will find it. Then Vince and I will be flooded with baby angels! and pretty ones at that. I really like the looks of his angels.

[vince0]

i thought about seperating them for growth purposes, not for spawning purposes and i have noticed that they take brakes on their own. sometimes they breed every two weeks, sometimes they won't breed for months. i don't even know if im accidentally triggering all these spawns, or have just been "doing it right" all along...

the only things i do with my tanks, is trim plants/replant and do a 10% - 30% weekly waterchange mostly depending on my mood and how much time i want to spend changing water. (the larger water changes usually occur when i don't do a wc for over 10 days)

as for the eggs dying, im wondering if it may have something to do with transportation, possibly air exposure? maybe if we silicon a device to hold the leaf at he bottom of the containter it may lead to successful spawns - i know im starting to get wigglers in the tank so its not a viability issue