Problem with dog .. can you help?

[Blossom112]

We have had a problem with our dog from day 1 ....
we he is got him at 1 yr...he couldnt even walk ,was caged in small cage (my only answer)
So he grew to walk , pretty fast ...
I should not have bought him but felt bad for him grrrrr
Now we are in a delemma ...he will bite other people/children /dogs
We have a other dog he adores (which we share with another family(friends)
does not bit her sometimes gets carried away and i tell them to "cut it out" and it stops .

He is excluded from many things that we do together as a family that makes us feel bad .
If we tell the vet I am sure the option he will give us is to put him down .
So hubby and i have talked about maybe there is someone else that can privide him a home with no dogs and children ...
I made a post and very clear that this dog would bite a child or another dog ...even if his tail is wagging with joy (he has done this)
and i get stupid responses ...like I go regular to dog parks,and my other dog was "hit by a car"
and "I need a dog that wont chew my stuff"
and "I will come get your dog now " leaving a number for pick up tonight.

I know my spelling "sucks" but comeon do i look stupid!
i guess by posting I am .
When I babysit he has to be crated ....when we go out anywhere I have to watch like a hawk .
HE IS A SMALL DOG ... purebred minature poodle cant be more then 20 lbs ...I have trained 2 other dogs and all went perfect .
I am thinking maybe take him to a dog park with a muzzle see if he can over come dog/on dog agression .
but i have no clue on how to stop him from snapping a child cant take the chance achild will get harmed .
I used a gentle leader which i hold tight if i see any children , could I have been causing this by doing that ? i think it may be possible .
I have a feeling this dog may have been hit in the head or something when he was a pup ,he seems slightly like no one is home "stupid like " and poodles are far from stupid .

He is perfect in every other way , walks perfect does everything i tell him (if he understands lol) never chews stuff ,goes outside just a perfect dog ...so what gives?
One thing I never did was a dominance "down" maybe I should ... but I have taught humans first ,he will not go ahead unless I give the "ok" release word .
We are at a loss ...and will not put him down and looks like we keep him and he is desine to be locked up when people come over and secluded ....so we arent sued and no one gets hurt
He is fixed,and we never hit him ..any suggestions I am willing to try anything at this point because I know hubby wont care if he is put to sleep ....
I babysit children so he is locked up untill parents come ...and no kids are aloud even near his cage . sometimes that can be 5 hours or more ...I have had to refuse babysitting if its any longer because of the dog .
in a pickle really.....will post a pic of him asap

[Blossom112]

here he is ....Ceazer

[mdfa.ca]

Blossom,

sounds to me like he was abused and would probably need some serious training. Could you contact a professional trainer? There should be lots of them in TO. Do you watch the show Dog Whisperer? The guy's name is Cesar Millan. Here is his website: The Dog Whisperer (http://www.cesarsway.com/dogwhisperer). Your dog sounds (and looks) very intelligent so I think there is more than a hope for him.

Anyways, look up Cesar - he has lots of info on his website, also has a magazine, and I do believe there are some of his videos on youtube.

[Blossom112]

at first I thought he was abused .....then I was told by someone if he was caged for the first year of his life he would react like he was abused ....so that is really hard to pinpoint .


We could seek out a trainer ,but when we did interview a few it didnt feel right .
we had a guy come here 1 time and we didnt like it .
But maybe time to find something again .
He really is a good dog , I just hate caging him for so long ...I usually babysit frm 7 to 6pm in the summer ...but refused this year because I dont want to cage him that long.

We were thinking maybe more contact with people ,maybe this weekend take him on a bus ride to the beach . We could be making it worse by keeping him away from others.
Whatever it is We know it is not his falt .

[Dan_G_Calgary]

Blossom,

sounds to me like he was abused and would probably need some serious training. Could you contact a professional trainer? There should be lots of them in TO. Do you watch the show Dog Whisperer? The guy's name is Cesar Millan. Here is his website: The Dog Whisperer (http://www.cesarsway.com/dogwhisperer). Your dog sounds (and looks) very intelligent so I think there is more than a hope for him.

Anyways, look up Cesar - he has lots of info on his website, also has a magazine, and I do believe there are some of his videos on youtube.

Exactly what I was thinking. omg he is such a good looking dog too, and other than that one issue, sounds like he is perfectly fine. I have always dominated dogs at an early age, and intermittently when their behaviour gets out of line. It is a natural process for them, I believe so when they don't have it, it is like they are trying to speak a different language than you are speaking to them. But I am far far FAR from an expert, so would definetely suggest writing an email or posting on The Dog Whisperer site. See if they can get you some good information. There must have been similar situations that the Dog Whisperer has already resolved so would also reccomend trying to see his older shows till you can find one with a similar scenario.

Good luck and I hope you don't have to put him down.

Dan

[vince0]

cesar milan is my hero! he trains people, rehabilitates dogs! bahaha

im very sorry to hear about your situation, sometimes, if 1 trainer doesn't work for you, try a different one... we are all people and each of us may not be compatible with the other. If it doesn't work the first time, try again, theres not point in giving up.

[mdfa.ca]

Ditto! And there is nothing wrong with putting a muzzle on him so he can be out of the kennell and move and participate in your family life until you find a solution to the problem. And I'm sure there is one.

cesar milan is my hero! he trains people, rehabilitates dogs! bahaha

im very sorry to hear about your situation, sometimes, if 1 trainer doesn't work for you, try a different one... we are all people and each of us may not be compatible with the other. If it doesn't work the first time, try again, theres not point in giving up.

[Dan_G_Calgary]

Ditto! And there is nothing wrong with putting a muzzle on him so he can be out of the kennell and move and participate in your family life until you find a solution to the problem. And I'm sure there is one.


That was a brilliant suggestion. I never thought of that. do that! :Smile:

[Melody]

Absolutely, muzzle him, let him get used to being around strangers. Start with children that are old enough to understand that they shouldn't be rough or startle him, then start taking him to other places where there are children. It sounds like he wasn't properly socialized.

Small dogs are also inclined to be nippy if they're not trained. I think it starts because they're small and afraid of being hurt. If that's not addressed, it becomes normal behaviour. Some lines also aren't worked for temperament, which is something a responsible breeder always considers.

But the thing is, I'm not a trainer, and I suspect that half of the people online and offline who claim to be trainers, aren't. They read a book or two and think they're qualified experts. There's more to it than training knowledge. They have to be the type that gets to know a dog and tries to figure him out. They need to have a 'way' with animals and a natural talent for working with them, just like many careers.

Maybe try posting on local dog forums for referrals to a good trainer. Referrals speak volumes when it comes to these things.

Good luck to you both!

Edit: This link (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=choosing+a+dog+trainer&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=250d288cd3d71764) will take you to search results about how to choose a dog trainer - there's some great tips in many of the articles.

[Blossom112]

Thanks all ...... I will get a proper muzzle ...but the gentle leader also goe's over the muzzle ,I have always used this with him .
I will grab a picture of it on him .

I think maybe a lot then (after reading) is my falt ,knowing what he will do just avoided and over protective .
Funny today i took him down to the pool , julie went swimming we stayed outside the fence , ceazer was trying to get at a woman i talk to on the other side ,but after an hour standing and talking he was better .
she threw a cookie through the fence for him and he would not take it from the ground lmao (I taught him to not eat food from the ground)
What a good boy ,am surprised he actually got it.

Good idea ..... im going to go get a full muzzle and go around kids and people and when i see him try and snap i will give him a lecture (the dogs hate my lectures)

He is perfectly trained and we do love him as well as he cost a pretty penny he is a CKC purebred and A SHOW DOG .... if i wanted to fancy groom and show him I can .
our other dog goes everywhere with us ,we have a snuggly for her say up she jumps right in it and puts her paws around my neck hangin on , she even says helloooo.
My goal is to take him with us as well instead of being left out .
Thanks ....

[Blossom112]

I think hubby is afraid of being sued ......he could easily put him down ,,, but would have pending divorce lmao .....
I feel better talking anbout it !

[Pamelajo]

Blossom contact your vet or the receptionist at the office to get the names of reputable trainers, they should have contacts.

[Gobies et al]

There are a few things that I would consider if I were in your situation.

One of the first things I would do is a good medical checkup that would include an eye exam, also thyroid levels. There are a couple of eye disorders that are found in Poodles, PRA (Progressive Retinal Atrophy) and cataracts being the most common. Thyroid problems can create psychiatric issues along with physical.

Realize that dogs can get basically any disorder that people get including mental problems.

You mentioned holding tight to the Leader when around someone. That would relay to the dog that there is something to be anxious about. There are a number of ways around this. One I like is to take the dog to the side and have them lie down quietly until the person is past then praise for good behaviour.

If you think he is guarding you, you need to take back control of the situation. This is best accomplished with obedience lessons.

If he spent his first year in a cage then he didn't get a chance to learn proper socialization or bite inhibition. Those are difficult for him to learn as an adult and will take extensive work. You have mentioned biting but is he breaking skin, nipping, or just mouthing?

When you consider the dog's future, consider that he could live to 16 years or more. If you have children, it affects their lives as well. They would not be able to have friends in without making sure it is safe. It also affects having relations in or staying with them.

It is a big responsibility and being sued is a reality.

[Melody]

I think hubby is afraid of being sued ......he could easily put him down ,,, but would have pending divorce lmao .....
I feel better talking anbout it !


I can't say I blame him there, it could get ugly if he ever does bite a stranger. I'm sure hubby also wants nothing at all to do with hurting a child, which is a good thing so we'll bless his heart. :Smile: Although he could still kill or seriously injure a small child/baby, at least you have size on your side when it comes to evaluating the actual threat.

Does he go outside into a fenced area? I would worry about him escaping if that's the case, but otherwise I think you can control the situation with diligence. It will always be a risk if he isn't trained though.

This is also why children should be taught to ask before they pet a dog. It always amazes me how many aren't. Not all dogs are around children and their owners may have no reason to think they'll bite, but they prefer to be cautious just in case. My Sister's Miniature American Eskimo was a sweet dog, but she wasn't used to kids and she didn't like them - they scared her. She often growled at them so my Sister took precautions just in case. She never did bite.

[amaruq]

I have a dalmatian with Attitude!!!!!!!

Before we got her she was hit by a car in the head/face and numerous broken bones to skull and head. She has some brain damage but I seen her in the pound and they told us she was to be put down and I HAD TO HAVE HER!!!!!

We learned later she had never been in a house or knew what to do about stairs, toys and just generally being a house dog. She had also been a stray for some time and was in PACK mode.

We also learned she was VERY sick. From the pound she went to the vet where she had a stomach infection, ear infection and massively under weight (she was 30 pounds where she should have been 60)

Now 8 yrs later I have done extensive training with her.

She is a very Dominant dog meaning she will RULE you!

I suspect that is the problem here! For this you either need to read ALOT! or get a trainer. There is a lot to do.

Rehoming to some one who knows how to train would be a good idea if your not willing to spend the time and believe me you have to spend a lot of time training.

Please don't put the dog down! I would take her in a heart beat but i live in Winnipeg! It is simple case of bad training and letting her get away with being bad.

A dog doesn't understand punishment a dog understands when the owner is dominant and teaches the dog correct commands. Basically YOU have to be the boss.

If i can help in any way please let me know! i will do my best!

[mdfa.ca]

So true, Melody. Nothing scares me more than parents allowing their little tykes to just come up behind my dog and start petting. He is a big dog and even though we have never had a problem with him and aggression (crossing fingers and toes here), he IS still a very big puppy. He has not got over the typical "black lab mouthing thing" yet even though he is very gentle with it. But you never know. I always try to give the kids a very gentle lesson on why they should always ask first and then let them pet Hunter "officially".

Blossom, he have a gentle leader as well, and though it does make things a bit difficult, I don't think it would stop a dog from biting if they wanted to. There are nice, soft muzzles on the market that allow the dogs to open their mouths and pant if they are hot but still protect from bites. Just do some looking around. And yes, socialize, socialize, socialize...:laugh:

[Blossom112]

gary .... I think as well about being caged for the first year .and it really affects our life

yes we did bring him to our vets attention that we thought he had some kind brain damage when we first got him the vet did all the test when we took him in to be fixed , we also had the vet QT him ,because we had another dog and didnt want her to get sick .
that was our big concern because you never know where they come from ....and although i was told he had all his shots I made the vet do that as well .
sry I forgot to include this .(the other dog we have had for 9 yrs from the time she was 3 months old )


no worries he is never out of our control , always on gentle leader that I know how to use properly .
I think he is feeling my anxiety when i see a dog or child ,but it scares the **** out of me when i see a HUGE dog and he tries to lounge ,many rotties in this area ....which makes my dog a snack ...plus the fact that I know some people who have never taken their dogs to the vets ....
He has bitten ,dont know iff it broke skin the kid ran off ....the kid just ran up to us outa nowhere and stuck its hand out ....I wish like melody said parents would teach their kids to ask first ...even when an adult asks "does he bite " i say yes they still try to get closer "then i say DID YOU HEAR ME ?"CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?" It is like they think im joking ?
same with other dogs ,i get like but he is wagging his tail he wants to play , I say yep he is wagging and he wants to attack and they still try to approach ....these stupid reactions by adults really **** me off .
If he is going to bark I say STOP and he stops and sits ,we stay in that possition to wait for them to pass but 99% of the time they try to aproach us even afer i tell them .....so actions from others as well arent helping us out . and these people know this for 2 years and still try .....go figure

He really is a good dog and listens really really good ......but it is so very very stressfull

OMG julie and i are going to go to the mall for lunch and see if we can find a muzzle his size ......julie and i at the mall together is a bad thing .....she makes me spend money :eek: she promised "just lunch" lmao

[Dan_G_Calgary]

Sadly, I can understand that wanting to pet him. He is so adoreable he just looks like he wouldn't! He looks a lot like our Bijon Frise so I can see myself trying to pet him!

[Melody]

Be a good boy and ask first! :Neener:

[Blossom112]

lmao .... it is true and the way he wags his tail is heart melting as he doesnt have a full crop ..he is soooo soft like silk ...I do tell adults alone ,he bites so its at your own risk ,but hubby tells me even if i say that we are still responsible so I cant win .
Couldnt find the right size muzzle ....the metal one looks too wide from top to bottom ...so hubby will keep looking in the store see when they get the right size ....in nylon .
but then i cant use the gentle leader ,:eek: i am so used to that ,what will i do lol
I like having control of his head lmao .
I will dig out his coller but im thinking he wont like wearing one hehehe .

The other poodle wears a harness , and he chews the harness and they arent cheap ...I find using a collar makes them walk funny .
I will get a loaner muzzle from our vets next week ,maybe they will order me a leather one.

[amaruq]

Here is something I had to learn. Be calm when another dog approaches. In fact I will say "Oh nice puppy" in a happy voice and generally they behave.

A dog can sense your reactions.

I also use a back harness on the Dal. More control.

You know 101 Dalmatians just ticks me off! every kid sees my girl and sceams DALMATIAN !!!!!!and comes flying at her. I yell to stop!!!!!! But I have had kids as young as 2 come running at her and people just them go!

Dals are not like the movie! They are hyper and aggressive and VERY powerful! Even a whack of the tail smarts! I always tell people who are thinking of Dals they are not a kid friendly dog.

[amaruq]

Here she is notice the twisted muzzle and she is missing bones around the one eye. She is a Liver Spot.

Her name is Liz!

[Melody]

Pleasure to meet you, Liz! May I pet her? :wink:

I suppose people think that you wouldn't have them in public around children if they were nasty, but it's not as simple as that.

[Blossom112]

aweeeee ...very nice !

[mdfa.ca]

Awww, what a beautiful girl Liz is. But yes, you can certainly see the power in that head.

[amaruq]

Liz says thanks and sends doggy wet kisses :tongue:

Oh and one more bit of advice. Don't let anyone talk you into German Pinch collars. These i find cruel for dogs. I know a trainer tried to tell me to do that and ..wellll they weren't my trainer very long.

[Blossom112]

Funny you should say that ....everyone told us to get that coller for our great dane we had ........No way they are cruel ....
but I can understand people with very big dogs that will hurt people or humans using those collars ....
I like the gentle leader ...by fay my fav ....except the nylon actually cuts into the skin (it did on the dane)
so I got the knock off one which is a clear plastic over the nose and was perfect ! only 14 buxs
where the gentle leader is about 3x that.

[amaruq]

I had a Great Dane 25 yrs ago. Brindle. We got her after an A hole threw her down stairs and starved her. Her name was Tia Marie. I still have her papers I loved her fathers name Aremis.

She was such a good dog and a big suck!

She died at 5 yrs old from and enlarged heart. It broke my heart and I couldn't look at another dog for a long time. I would never have a Dane cause of life span although I have heard it has improved since then.

How you doing with your little fellow?

I love the gentle leader also!!!!! But for Liz cause of her face and missing bones we had to use a back harness. Motzi has the gentle leader. (Motzi is half Dal and border Collie)

[Blossom112]

ok ...so I have started telling people he may bite , but letting them come if they want to ...and telling him to be nice and anytime I see he gets nervous I make him look at me ...after I tell him good boy .

We were forunate to go out and have people block the walk way and with another litle dog ,once I saw my dog get anxous I made him sit right there in front of the other dog quietly and it worked out very well .
So now that I am changing my behaviour of avoiding and now confronting ,I really think we can change this !

That other small dog was going nutts the whole time and he was sooo good ,in which I heard someone say once we passed what a good dog that is :-)

He is such a good dog !
So I think he will get it soon , once I feel no anxeity .
I am trying !

p.s we are going to be getting a great dane again once we move to the house in nova scotia .... we just arent sure older or pup , I would like to get one that is older but like you said , you dont know the health care they had and would die young without it .
great danes are lapdogs ... ours sat on the sofa like a human ,if anyone dat in her spot she was sure to make you move so she could sit lol was funny to see my son terrified because of her size ,but I warned him thats her spot lol
If we get a pup we can make sure all her health care needs are addressed from young ,this way ensuring a longer lifespan .
So I am up in the air ... rescue or pup .... omg then we would like to get a bethoven dog ..... my cousin just got one after we left in november ..I cant wait to get there , and the best part hubby cant complain as he will be staying here rolmao!
I will have them all trained and perfect b4 he even knows it :-)

thanks all ...I will find out when school starts ,and he is around lots kids !

[Melody]

I'm glad to hear it's working!

[amaruq]

I'm glad it's working out for you and the pup :)

Key thing is (and what I had to really learn) stay calm!

[Blossom112]

We have been taking Ceazer on the bus and subway on weekends to the lake , and he is doing much better .....
I think I may have figured out the problem ...... I think he is either blind or has very limited sight ... which would explain his behavior .
I shall take him to the vets this week and have them do test .
probaby wont be till thursday /friday ... this week is back to school !

we will continue takig him , he loves it ! and is doing much better !
We will be moving to a smaller place , for hubby . and are getting a great dane and train it here ... julie and i are leaving and would prefer to take a trained dog with us .
so this should be interesting how ceazer is to another dog !

[Gobies et al]

I'm glad to hear that things have been going better. Let us know how the eye test goes.