Riddle me this

[Dan_G_Calgary]

If you had an empty 50 gal tank and wanted to have an interesting breeding project for it, what would it be and why?

[GaryofMontreal]

Once you start trying to breed 50 gallon tanks, you're out of control.

Ahem. 50 gallons is a weird size. It's small for the big stuff, and big for the small stuff. What's available locally, and what are some of the possibilities? You could aim for just about any fish under 6 inches total length with that tank.

[Cowboychris]

a Rare type of Pleco, because i like pleco's

[fishclubgirl]

Endlers, because they'd fill up a 50 in no time. Sorry Dan!!

[vince0]

what are the dimensions of the tank? is it a standard 4ft x 1ft x 1.5ft tank?

if it is, you could do angels, severums, any cichlid that stays under 6 inches.

plecos could work too, but again they would have to be under 6 inches.

maybe large killifish, or live bearers.

I did have a really nice brichardi tank, when i had my 55g set up for it.

[Dan_G_Calgary]

yah sorry. I should have clarified.

It is a 3 ft tank, I think it is closer to like 48 gallons than 50. I moved my black angels in to the 90 to finish their grow out, which left this tank empty.

I have the twin to this tank set up for L204s (hopefully spawning at some point) and with my Uragayan (did I butcher that?) plecos, 3 groups of corys - that is enough catfish breeding for me.

Not really a big African guy, and ruling out more catfishies for this year, trying to think of something that would be interesting to do in that tank.

Maybe some mid size rainbows? I dunno yet...

PS: you made me laugh with that cheesy joke Gary. :)

[GaryofMontreal]

Sometimes it's fun to look around at what's available, then hit the books. Find something you didn't know about, or wouldn't normally go for, that can be bred in captivity, and give it a shot. Something completely outside your general choices.
I've tried (and failed) with Gobies a few times. I've come to really like rainbows, and have come to like a few Characins a lot because of trying to breed them. Mouthbrooding Bettas? Splashing tetras? There are so many weird and interesting fish out there.
Goodeids? Madagascar rainbows? Pachypanchax or other threatened fishes?

[vince0]

lol in that tank dan, the world is your oyster! its perfect for almost everything lol

[Dan_G_Calgary]

Yup. Just can't think what I would like to do in it yet.
contemplating some mid size (6 inch or so?) gouramis.

Even though I am not a huge fan of africans, I also contemplated Frontosa's. Mama killed that immediately though. When I mentioned them and told her what they look like 'bleh.' was the effective response. Apparently not a fan. haha!

She has unusual preference, but it seems consistent. She likes gold angels and blonde men.

hmmm. Starting to put 2 and 2 together.. Maybe some gold discus? nah. Not really ready to start working with discus. Was thinking of that maybe next year or so.

Are there any mid size gold colored gouramis? Pearls I guess might be close...

just blue skying some ideas.

[GaryofMontreal]

There are gold forms of the really boring Trichogaster gouramies - it's not a colour that makes the best camouflage in nature. There are some gold Melanotaenia rainbows (herbertaxelrodi, trifasciata running creek) and a bunch of naturally occuring goldish/yellowish Central American cichlids. There is a cultivated gold Severum whose ancestors were South American. Gold swords, platies and mollies. Goldfish. Gold killies. There's a harmless parasite that turns Apistogrammoides and a tetra gold. Gold barbs exist.
There aren't too many blonde fish - occasionally, one of my killies jumps out and hits its head on the cement, but other than that, blondes are hard to come by in the fish world.

[Dan_G_Calgary]

Gold severums.....

I think we have a front runner, if not an outright winner. I don't think I've ever raised Severums, although I am a fan.

That borders on that old dilemna though of monster fish that shouldn't be in pet stores. I tend to like to breed stuff, and severums might just fit in that category of cute fish that shouldn't be sold to unsuspecting public.... so maybe not.

Thoughts?

[GaryofMontreal]

They're discus shaped, but a bit more forgiving in terms of water quality. They are bigger, but not anywhere near a monster fish. Six to eight inches for a tank raised fish would seem normal to me. They're not much more aggressive (outside of nest/fry defence) than a mega-angel would be.
You'd be stuck with a severum only tank, but a pair would do fine in a tank that size. I don't know how they'd breed in hard water though - maybe not well.
The gold morph is a domestic. It might take some looking for.
I was confused by these fish and looked them up a few weeks ago. There are wild ones coming in that are mouthbrooders. Word on the street is most aquarium bred ones (open spawners) are Heros mutts, and not Heros severus. It seems to be a complex of related and similar fishes that were thrown together by hobbyists who didn't know better. If you get the gold, you're guaranteed a domestic mutt type anyway.
I had some green ones years ago, and I liked them. They had style and reacted to life outside the tank. I find East African lake Malawi cichlids cool, but dull. South American riverine cichlids are way more intelligent, and observant of the world around them.

[Dan_G_Calgary]

I am kind of surprised by the south american mouth brooders. For some reason I thought that was only african fish. I can't remember ever hearing of a SA fish that is a mouthbrooder. shows how little I know! haha!

If they've been in the hobby this long I am not going to get all technical about them being mutts. I am opposed to current hybridization, but you gotta apply a little common sense I think. If it will breed without hormonal interference or other science manipulation, and can reproduce I am suspicious of whether it truly is a 'hybrid'

But I am hardly a scientist... So stand ready to be corrected on this.

Edit: We have a winner! I showed mama a pic from the net of a gold severum - http://newaquarium.blogspot.com/2009/06/gold-severum-cichlids-aka-banded.html and she really liked them! Now to source them. Anyone have or know anyone that has some gold severum?

[GaryofMontreal]

I wouldn't worry about them being mutts either - they're gold, after all.
They remain a nice fish - a neat option.
There are lots of SA mouthbrooders. Malawi females mouthbrood and release and move on. SA Geophagines can trade the young between partners (as can African river species) and will pick up the young when danger lurks, for weeks after release. The behavior is way more complex than Malawis. It's incredible to watch babies rushing into the parent's mouth - one of the coolest things I've ever seen in an aquarium.
You know, you'd need sand, but Geophagus steindachneri is adaptable with water, smallish, not too aggressive, mouthbroods spectacularly and is kind of yellowish - gold in a recession.

[Melody]

Edit: We have a winner! I showed mama a pic from the net of a gold severum - http://newaquarium.blogspot.com/2009/06/gold-severum-cichlids-aka-banded.html and she really liked them!

A lovely fish indeed, best of luck!

[vince0]

If you go the geophagus route, check out "tapajos red head"

[Dan_G_Calgary]

We are locked on target. Gold severums it is.

[GaryofMontreal]

Tapajos red head would not go in a 55. Too big, too delicate. I've kept them twice. All the larger Geos and Satanoperca should have a 75 minimum, 20 gallons per fish. In tanks over 120 gall, they are the perfect fish. Behavior, beauty, neat breeding - just outstanding. But they are demanding.
Someday, I will flood my basement and keep Geophagus dicrozoster with a big, wise-eyed Satanoperca species.

[Dan_G_Calgary]

go here for the latest in the 'fill the 50' adventure.

http://www.canadianaquariumconnection.com/forum/showthread.php?p=84038#post84038

[Melody]

I'm beginning to think I'm cursed. It tells me I'm not logged in when I click on the link, so I'm going to assume the link reflects that it's now in the classifieds.

It's great that you found them so quickly!

[OldMan]

Severums in hard water breed easily Gary. My daughter bred so many that she finally had to get rid of them all. The main pair were producing more fry than typical guppies in the hard water that I also deal with. My approach is to stick with mostly livebearers but she decided to go ahead and breed her severums. At around 300 fry every few wekks, she had to quickly give up trying to save any fry.

[Dan_G_Calgary]

I checked with my angels. They have assured me that baby gold or super red severums are in fact in their 'natural' food source category:err:

Also, the thing my wife and I are most excited about is having baby gold/red severums in a tank with baby black angels. I should be able to get some amazing color shots out of that...

btw, picking up a new tank tomorrow. another 4 footer....