Deadbeat Male

[jordonsmum]

Mel, (or anyone)
I kept two of my fry when I sold off the rest of my stock (when I was expecting). I finally got the energy and the excitement back to start breeding my Lyretail Swordtails again. I have three buyers waiting for fry and the new male (very young) that I got seems to be a real dead beat. I know he's really young and quite small. Less than half the size of the females. But he has his black swordtail and the proper sized genapodium. I thought once they established their sword they were ready to go. Is that not true? This little guy follows them and swims up to them and does what lookes to be "sniffing" them. But doesn't line up next to them or swim backwards toward them like my "old" fella did. Should I give him the boot. he's been the tank for a few weeks now. Or should I be a little more patient? My old guy went after the females the day after they dropped.
Thanks

[Melody]

You're positive the females are females & not late-developing males? That's not to sound condescending - it still happens to me on a regular basis in Swordtails....lol.

Otherwise, up the protein, do lots of water changes and make sure there's decent water movement. Don't keep the tank too warm.

He may just be a different personality - likes to charm the ladies rather than strut his stuff trying to impress them. Both personalities get the job done ;). He may also have been way far down in pecking order in his former accomodations. Get punched enough times for whistling at the girls and eventually you're going to decide the girls aren't worth whistling at.:laugh:

[jordonsmum]

Hey there lady,

Good to see you. Yup, they're gals. They were born before my baby was and my baby's going to be 1 yr on March 31st. They're prob approaching 1.5 yrs now. If they haven't fully developed by now... they're a lost cause...LOL The gravid spot is very obvious as well as their tales are very swordless. Not to mention if they were males they'd be the biggest males i'd ever seen. I guess I'm just impatient. Temp is hovering around 70 ish and I have 3 tbsp salt in 15 gals, and ph and everything is where it should be. ( I just checked on Friday because of course I thought I was doing everything wrong after being out of the loop so long...lol) *sigh* you need to superspeed those fry of yours and send me some...:( *wink wink, nudge nudge* LOL

[Melody]

Glad you found some time to chat! You'll have to e-mail some baby pics :smile: .

They don't have swords? They're not Lyres?:confused:

Try feeding some live or frozen food. Mine like that Emerald Entre' stuff, fortified with Spirulina. If nothing else, it will get some size on the male. I agree though, he shouldn't be too young.

I'll go feed the fry again, just for you....lol...look to be mostly reds and blushing reds. I have a huge red & orange about to pop any minute. There's two or three Neons packing and lots more reds at various stages. Some are in with my Albinos so here's hoping that generation two will have Albino Lyres for us.:smile:

[jordonsmum]

They have the Lyretail. Just not the Black male sword. Thank god or I wouldn't be getting any fry out of them for sure.. LOL The males sword is developed though with Lyretail. I still say he's a lazy bum though....

I'll take what I can get, when I can get them...lol nnneeeeeed fry.....lol

[Melody]

Does the male have a lyretail or is he just a regular swordtail?

[jordonsmum]

Ohhhh yessss he sure does have the Lyretail. Of course being a breedable male, he only displays partial traits. I'm finding myself staring at the ladies gravid spots EVERY DAY hoping to see something. He's only been in the tank with them about two weeks, so I know it's too early.. especially seeings how he's been such a lazy bum. But I can hope..lol I'll send a pic to your email. Which brings me to another question.. how do you take such clear pics of your fish and mine and always streaks????

[Melody]

There's your problem - if he's a lyre he can't breed. Even if the Gono hasn't extended yet (and it probably will later), he doesn't have the 'hooks' to grab the female with for insemination.:no:

There's a bunch of awesome articles in the Photo section on taking good tank photos. Mine are 1 in 50 decent and then I can sharpen them up in Photoshop so I cheat. :laugh:

[jordonsmum]

But my last breeding male was exactly the same as this guy!!!!

[Melody]

Part of the lyre trait is the extended gono and lack of hooks. That makes it pretty much impossible for them to impregnant unless the female sits still for them....lol. Maybe you found one that retained the hooks somehow before - nothing is ever cut & dry with these things. However, if he's not performing, I'm betting that's it.

This is a male Lyre that I had before and thought he may be a breedable male. He wasn't. He also developed the extension later. That seems to come last quite often. I make many sexing mistakes because of that actually.:rolleyes:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f227/canadiansinternetdotcom/MM-HiFinLyre-BreedableMale.jpg

[jordonsmum]

What a bunch of big jerks..LOL (the fish I mean)... this is too funny. I sent you some photos of my guy and gals.. did you get them? What did you think? So... hypothetically speaking. IF some miracle were to happen and I got two breedable males in a row cause I said all of my fishy prayers like a good little non-pro breeder...LOL Would I be able to see anything at the 2 weeks mark? AAAND I recheck my stats this morning. I can't get my darned PH to go below 7.4 no matter what. My Ammonia is 0 and Nitrite is .6 . How can I get my ph down a little. What ph do they prefer?? thanks hun...as always!!

[Melody]

They're nice Lyres, but I can't tell anything about sexing them in those pic's, sorry.

If he got busy from day one you should see some changes at two weeks, but it sometimes takes awhile for the male to hit the female. What percentage of Lyres did you get with the other male, just out of curiousity?

7.4 is just fine for most fish - most Livebearers prefer it on the high side.:smile:

[jordonsmum]

Okay, so I only stared at the females gravid spots for about two hours total today. I never saw any breeding action, tons of interest but no actual breeding. But I swear that those gravid spots are getting darker and that they are becomming more dosile and withdrawn. He's also lost the interest in following them around that he used to have and has taken to just swimming along side almost as if he's watching over them. I'm sooooo trying NOT to get excited. Would I see anything at two weeks???

[Melody]

He'd still be trying to breed if they're already hit - they never stop...lol. If he hit them right away, you could should see a difference in the gravid spot at 2 weeks. They also could have indigestion. :laugh:

[jordonsmum]

LOL he swims along side them but doesn't try to "herd" them anymore or do the "sniffing" thing. He's prob a little thrown off with the new "lady on the block" too.

As for the photos. I know the gender of them, just wanted to see what you thought of them. I have nothing to compare to all out here on my lonesom...lol

Also, I took your advice today and picked up some frozen bloodworms and frozen brine shrimp. They LOVED them. I used to feed jar blood worms to them and they hated them. I didn't know that frozen vs dry / jar could make such a difference!!! How often should I feed them each vs crisps?