Oh My God.. Fin Rot!!!!!

[jordonsmum]

omg , omg.. one of my lyretail females has fin rot!!!!! I haven't done anything different with the tank and they've been healthy since they were born. Could it have come from the new white fem sword I put in??? I put some malafix in the water this morning and added a little salt. I don't have a heater to turn up the heat... what else can I do?? I'm SURE that she and the other female are both preg so I'm afraid to hurt them or the fry.... MEL HELP!!!:chatterbox:

[CACAdmin]

I'm still somewhat of a novice but from what I understand fin rot is caused by bacteria and is usually triggered by stress. Other than the melafix, do extra water changes to ensure pristine water quality and as long as all the fish/critters you have in the tank will tolerate it, adding a small amount of aquarium salt as well might help. (I normally use some salt in my tanks anyways (containing platies, swords, mollies, plecos, hets and P. Bridgesii snails).

I've only had one case of fin rot and used the above measure and it cleared up fairly quickly with the fish making a full recovery and no recurrence.

Hopefully, some folks with more experience will be able to offer additional advice.

[jordonsmum]

I've been adding a little salt at a time over the past few days after putting the new fish in (i've always done this), to help prefent any infections from the new fish because she came from a large tank with TONS of other fish. I also always add salth with water changes to the new water. Is it possible to stress fish from adding plants? I've been adding one plant per day to help hide the fry when they come. And after putting the Melafix in the water, should I wait to do the water change so I don't dilute the meds? Or should I go ahead and change?

THANKYOU for your help. :smile:

[CACAdmin]

What are your water parameters at the moment?

[jordonsmum]

PH 7.4 Ammonia 0 and Nitrite .6

[CACAdmin]

I'd make the assumption that your nitrites although not high are above 0 because of the addition of the new fish. What are your nitrates? and when did you last do a water change?

[Melody]

omg , omg.. one of my lyretail females has fin rot!!!!! I haven't done anything different with the tank and they've been healthy since they were born. Could it have come from the new white fem sword I put in??? I put some malafix in the water this morning and added a little salt. I don't have a heater to turn up the heat... what else can I do?? I'm SURE that she and the other female are both preg so I'm afraid to hurt them or the fry.... MEL HELP!!!

LOL There's lots of brains around here my dear, many of which I've probably learned things from myself. I just answer a lot - that doesn't mean I know more, it means I'm more bored. :laugh:

I don't think she caught anything from the new fish as the new fish would be showing the same symptoms. However, you should quarantine all new fish - no quicker way to lose a tank full of them than to skip quarantine. No preaching there - I've learned it the hard way several times over.

Jay has given you good information and he has to stop calling himself a novice....lol. Finrot usually arrives due to poor water quality in my experience. The Nitrite reading backs that theory. Cut back on the food and make sure you're vacuuming really well. You've just started feeding the frozen foods - even small pieces can foul a tank very quickly. Are you thawing them before you put them in the tank? Rinsing/squeezing the 'juice' before you put the food in the tank?

[jordonsmum]

I did a water change yesterday and re-added meds. The readings I got before the water change were PH 7.4 , Ammonia 0 and Nitrite .6 . I'm going to test again today and see if it's better.

Nooo... I wasn't thawing and straining. Silly me, the women that sold the froz foods said to just break off chunks and chuck them in the tank. I'll thaw and strain from now on. Thank you.

Despite my water change and new meds last night, the fin rot seems to be progressing. Would reduced stress help? The male has been harassing them both terribly and ignoring the white female other than to chase her away from the two reds. Do you think I should take him out to give her some peace and reduce her stress?

[Melody]

A lot of people just toss the frozen in, but you add to your polution with that and its harder to tell just how much you're putting in there. Frozen food can also cause inflammation in the digestive tract.

Reducing stress will always help a sick fish. You could remove the male or her to another tank. Keep the tank dark. If it continues to progress I'd guess that its a secondary infection, meaning she's sick from something else and the finrot set in because she was weakened from the initial infection.

Hope she gets better soon!

[jordonsmum]

I've removed the male and new female from the tank. The two female lyres have the 15 gal to themselves. I thought they would relax but they seem more stressed. The one with fin rot has started bouncing off of plant leaves on her side. Any ideas???

[Melody]

Sounds like parasites maybe? Any spots? Gill inflammation? That could have come in on the new fish - maybe you didn't see it since its white?

[jordonsmum]

The only thing that I can see is two tiny white spots on one of their anal fins. I can't see anything else, and believe me I've looked... God this is so frustrating. Is there something else I need to use if it is parasites? Or will melafix do the trick? Is there any such thing as an invisible parasite???

[Melody]

Could be anything at this point, including the parameters again. We don't want to start throwing med's at the unknown. Even if it is parasites, it wouldn't be causing finrot too so we can assume there's a primary infection or other stress I should think. Parasites are opportunists - they attack weakened fish most.

I suppose the new fish could have been packing something that it has become immune to - that happens. Seems to have hit very quickly though.

The Melafix won't tackle parasites, but the salt will tackle Ich if that's what it is. Anything like Fish Lice will probably need a med. I like RidIch Plus because it tackles parasites and fungus but its reasonably gentle. Don't throw med's at it until you ID it though - that will just stress them more. I'd isolate her.

[jordonsmum]

I always appreciate the help. I thought she was toast last night. She looked horrible. And that's just it.. it hit so fast.. She had her dorsal fin folded and wouldn't put it up (I've never seen these guys do that before). She was stiff and bent in a curve and you could see her straining. She also had her tail fin closed and wouldn't fan it out. She was throwing herself against plants and decorations in the tank on her side. I felt so bad.

However... here's today update; She seems to be feeling much better this morning. I watched her before I went to bed last night and she was darting around the tank, taking bites of algea and eating them. That was also something new. After that she had a huge "movement" and then came back to life again. She seems to be her same old self this morning. (My fingers are crossed) Someone said this week that blood worms can (excuse the term) bung them up. So I think I'm going to keep them on the crisps for a few days and do what Jay suggested (the peas defrosted and skinned). See how that goes. I'm also continuing the melafix for fin rot unless something else changes. I learn something new every day with these guys.

[CACAdmin]

Glad to hear she seems to be doing much better today.:smile: We all learn something new all the time. That's one of the things about this hobby... always something new to learn... definitely keeps things interesting.

Good luck with the fin rot and keep us posted.

[jordonsmum]

I love the "lottery" aspect of the hobby, but the other thing that is really nice, is that you guys put up with my obsessive harping about my fish when everyone in the house (being my inlaws for a few weeks) look at me like I have six heads when I talk about it. The support from this site is AWSOME!!!!!

You guys/gals rock!! LOL:notworthy:

[Melody]

Strange that she was flicking, but as long as she's feeling better, that's what counts. I'm beginning to think those bloodworms are not the best thing - seems they always constipate unless you manage to only feed each fish one or two.

[jordonsmum]

I'm thinking I'm going to chuck the bloodworms and stick with brine shrimp and crisps. What do you think? I only got the bloodworms for more protine. Think I should just chuck the worms?

[Melody]

A lot of people feed them with no prob. Just stick to once or twice/week and follow it with a vegie meal the next time a meal is due. Feed just a tiny bit - you can judge that far better when they're thawed. Still surprises me how much is in there when they're frozen. I don't feed bloodworms because I'm alergic to them, but otherwise they're a good source of protein.

[CACAdmin]

Yup, I agree. I use dried not frozen bloodworms and feed only occasionally (once a week, maybe) and follow with peas for the next feeding. Good protein and the fish do love them so I definitely wouldn't chuck them.

[jordonsmum]

Perfect, thanks guys!

[Melody]

Sorry Kristy, I know my two answers sounded contradictory - that's what happens when I think outloud...lol. It just seems so easy to overfeed Bloodworms that I wonder if its worth it, but I wouldn't throw them out. I've had the same problem with pellet foods too.

The freeze-dried bloodworms are easier to eyeball for amounts too, but they're also a tad more constipating if they're not presoaked. All freeze dried food is, they just complicate a problem they already had that much more.

Anyways, they're lucky to have someone fussing over them all the time!:yes:

[jordonsmum]

Do you just rinse them in plain tap water? How do you strain them without losing them all. They're so tiny

[Melody]

Brine Shrimp net under the tap when I'm feeling ambitious. Usually I just put them in a container to thaw, then use a spoon to lift them up out of the juice and drain them along the side. Not the best method in regards to what a preach, but much better than having the tank get the full bunch of juice.

A Brine Shrimp net is very handy for catching tiny fry too - its white so they're easy to see and its fine so they don't get caught up in the net or slip through it.

[jordonsmum]

My quarentined female seems to be back to her old self but that darned stubborn fin rot is just holding right in there. It doesn't seem to be progressing but the white isn't going away... any ideas? Only second day of melafix now.. does it usually take a few days to get working??

By the way... I found a way to deal with the whole polution prob with frozen foods. I invested in a brine shrimp hatchery. And the darndest thing.. I can actually see the little buggers hatching!!!!

tee hee hee.. accept for the worrying this is all too much fun!

[Melody]

It will take it a few days to clear up. Certainly digestive prob's could have been the original stress source and if she's acting better, I'd say its only a matter of time. WHEW! It does take a bit of time to clear it up I find, but extra clean water & salt should cover it. Melafix will just make it that much quicker. Keeping it clean is the most important part and both Melafix & salt keep the bacteria down. She should be able to do the rest herself. I'd keep the stress low and feed her sparingly to rest the digestive system a bit. Let her focus her energy on getting better.

A BBS hatchery is a good investment. Much more economical. You still have to be careful with rinsing and casings, but otherwise its great. Also watch the amounts - I overfeed that stuff all the time...lol...but they do stay alive for I think a couple of hours after you feed them so that helps. They're tiny for adults, but they do eat them.

I find the snails are my lifesavers when it comes to BBS & other leftovers - they clean it up with great enthusiasm. I'll stick a couple in your box if you want some when the time comes - lots of time to think about it.:smile:

[jordonsmum]

I'm feeling spoiled over here.
For cleaning I have a combo of an albino Cory and a pleco (what kind exactly i'm not sure but he's a busy little munchkin).

I've been taking enough water out everysecond day since this all started. But JUST enough to suction the bottom. I add melafix as per the directions after each suction. Something better have fry in the next few weeks after all of this....

[Melody]

Sounds like a good clean-up crew. Your Cory would like friends - they're big schoolers. They're very entertaining when there's a group of them - they play together for hours.

I always have scratchy snails kicking around here - its no big to chuck them in there if you decide you want them. They also produce infusorians for the fry to feed on. Having live stuff in the box will be a good example for you for how to ship, and sending an empty box seems like a waste of shipping. :smile:

[jordonsmum]

That's awsome.. I'm WAYYY more excited than you know.. and I LOVE surprised and snails too. They're good algea eaters! I'm just worried about something happening to the play and fry since i don't have much experience.. I'm sure it will all be fine.

How long should I cycle the new tank before putting the "cycle fish" into it. ?? I think I asked that somewhere..LOL i'm losing track!!! LOL

[Melody]

LOL Yup, already answered that one.

As for the Platy, don't worry about it at all. We're happy that you're willing to do it and if something happens, it won't bother us a bit. We'll just make you drive half an hour to get 25 adults to replace the average brood.

:laugh:

[jordonsmum]

1/2 ? What's within a 1/2 hour that I don't know about??? huh huh? are you guys holding back on me....LOL

I have to run to work. I'm teaching a bunch of college students today.. (OH GOD, wish me luck). If I'm not back by tonight, they've eaten me alive...LOL have a great day!!!

[Melody]

LOL Didn't you say the breeder was half an hour away?

[jordonsmum]

Huh?? which breeder are we talking here? I'm lost...LOL it's been a long day. Are you talking about the guy that builds and stocks aquariums? If so, I don't thing he actually breeds intentionally. He said he ships them in from all over nationally. They're from some place where it's hot enough that people have aquariums outside year around that are the size of his van.. where ever that is. Anyway, apparently these fish live outside and have phenominal colour because they get vitamin D from the sun and get to eat bug larvae...

I just got home from work and checked my lil gal. Her fin rot is still eating away at her fin. I think it's day 3 of melafix... I'm really starting to get quite worried. She's still so lively and acting healthy though.

[Melody]

I don't suppose you can get a picture? Maybe its a fungus or parasite after all?

Yup, the guy you got the Blue Platy from, unless I'm mixing things up now, which I wouldn't put past me.:rolleyes:

[jordonsmum]

I don't think he's really a breeder. Although the guy had TONS of tanks in the little "shop" out behind his house. I'm sure his fish breed during their time together, but I think it's just to hold them until he stocks the aquariums that he builds. He usually doesn't just sell the fish unless he's building an aquarium for someone and then he stocks the aquarium he builds with his fish that he has. He took an interested in my because he had never seen Lyretail swords before and if I can successfully breed them he wants to buy them from me to stock his customers tanks with.

Am I making any sense??? LOL prob not, am so tired after today. Clear as mud??? LOL

So.. the deed is done, the three cycle fish are now in the newly set up 10 gal.

[Melody]

Makes perfect sense :yes: . Good luck with the cycling - I doubt you'll see much for fluctuations.